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A Saturday reverse wdc position grid sprint race would bring people to the track, eyes to the screen, keep the championship close for the whole season even with 1 team domination, and give us a proper driver champion who can pass and defend cleanly, not just start from pole and cruise.
This reads like my team/driver can't win on merit so I want the governing body to come in and make it so they can. I have a feeling this is the real motivation behind a lot of the most vocal fans.
Yes the cars need to be smaller, narrower, lighter, shorter, the aero needs to be cleaner and tires needs to be better in order for this to fully work, but it is possible and it would be fantastic.
So basically change everything about F1.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.
Yes the cars need to be smaller, narrower, lighter, shorter, the aero needs to be cleaner and tires needs to be better in order for this to fully work, but it is possible and it would be fantastic.
So basically change everything about F1.
Just as was deemed necessary for the 2021 regulations
And since you didn't grasp it the first time I'll capitalize it for you... FULLY
Last edited by ENGINE TUNER on 25 Sep 2019, 15:10, edited 1 time in total.
A Saturday reverse wdc position grid sprint race would bring people to the track, eyes to the screen, keep the championship close for the whole season even with 1 team domination, and give us a proper driver champion who can pass and defend cleanly, not just start from pole and cruise.
This reads like my team/driver can't win on merit so I want the governing body to come in and make it so they can. I have a feeling this is the real motivation behind a lot of the most vocal fans.
If I was forced to choose a favorite driver on the grid it would be Hamilton, and team would be Mercedes. Argue the points of discussion, not some unrelated nonsense. I'm tired of seeing processions, I'm tired of the tire conservation, I don't care for undercuts or overcuts, I want on track action, wheel to wheel battles, side by side racing, a reverse grid sprint race will greatly increase that, both on Saturday and Sunday.
If I was forced to choose a favorite driver on the grid it would be Hamilton, and team would be Mercedes. Argue the points of discussion, not some unrelated nonsense. I'm tired of seeing processions, I'm tired of the tire conservation, I don't care for undercuts or overcuts, I want on track action, wheel to wheel battles, side by side racing, a reverse grid sprint race will greatly increase that, both on Saturday and Sunday.
Even with a reverse grid you aren't going to get it. F1 is a multi billion dollar a year endeavor, and teams have hundreds of well paid engineers investigating every possible avenue of performance gain. Not to mention it's a formula series, so by its very nature no matter how much they try an tighten the rules, some team/driver will find a way to pull away and dominate.
Honestly, all the calls for change go against the very fabric of what F1 is and should be. I know I'm going to do what ever i can to fight it, petitions arguing with people etc.....
This reads like my team/driver can't win on merit so I want the governing body to come in and make it so they can. I have a feeling this is the real motivation behind a lot of the most vocal fans.
lol seriously. I fan the Qualifying Pole Position all-time Record Holder and 6x wdc-elect, same as ET. But luckily he's also the best clean overtaker so it won't make any difference except we'll see more of his awesome speed, racecraft and judgment, and Max's and Charles' of course
But luckily he's also the best clean overtaker so it won't make any difference except we'll see more of his awesome speed, racecraft and judgment, and Max's and Charles' of course
I think you will find none of that will matter, as on a lot of tracks no driver will able to pass cars fast enough to catch up to their actual competition.
A Saturday reverse wdc position grid sprint race would bring people to the track, eyes to the screen, keep the championship close for the whole season even with 1 team domination, and give us a proper driver champion who can pass and defend cleanly, not just start from pole and cruise.
This reads like my team/driver can't win on merit so I want the governing body to come in and make it so they can. I have a feeling this is the real motivation behind a lot of the most vocal fans.
The argument that is being put is that “merit” has more than one interpretation. There is merit in making and driving the fastest car in what is essentially a time trial and there is merit in making and driving a car to be the fastest when having to practise rather more overtaking and defending. Operationally I think the former is considerably easier, and has less merit, than the latter.
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus
This reads like my team/driver can't win on merit so I want the governing body to come in and make it so they can. I have a feeling this is the real motivation behind a lot of the most vocal fans.
lol seriously. I fan the Qualifying Pole Position all-time Record Holder and 6x wdc-elect, same as ET. But luckily he's also the best clean overtaker so it won't make any difference except we'll see more of his awesome speed, racecraft and judgment, and Max's and Charles' of course
Exactly, we would get to see more of the best doing what they do well with a reverse wdc grid sprint race. The best will shine brighter and the habitual crashers will be drummed out of F1 quicker. Then we will truly have the 20 best open wheel road racers on the planet in F1.
I think you will find none of that will matter, as on a lot of tracks no driver will able to pass cars fast enough to catch up to their actual competition.
The top guys will all be together like now, but at the back of the class like naughty boys on Saturday.
And this is for 2021 don't forget, when there's ground effect and supposedly only 10% loss of downforce behind another car. Sprinklers for Monaco or some other fix like Q, maximum attack racingfest
A Saturday reverse wdc position grid sprint race would bring people to the track, eyes to the screen, keep the championship close for the whole season even with 1 team domination, and give us a proper driver champion who can pass and defend cleanly, not just start from pole and cruise.
This reads like my team/driver can't win on merit so I want the governing body to come in and make it so they can. I have a feeling this is the real motivation behind a lot of the most vocal fans.
The argument that is being put is that “merit” has more than one interpretation. There is merit in making and driving the fastest car in what is essentially a time trial and there is merit in making and driving a car to be the fastest when having to practise rather more overtaking and defending. Operationally I think the former is considerably easier, and has less merit, than the latter.
Imo, the problem with the latter is that most of the tracks in use today aren't suited to close racing, given the speed aerodynamics, and general performance of modern cars.
the 2017 rule changes where supposed to make the show better and offer closer racing. We all know that didn't happen. The same was supposed to happen with 2019 rule changes, and most of the drivers say it's worse.
Even the 2021 rule changes aren't going to make much of a dent. I've seen claims that the 2021 rules mean that trailing cars will still loose 8 to 10% of their down force when following closely. When the top 10 are usually within 1% of each other 10% df loss is a lot. Hence I assume this is why the powers that be are trying to come up with gimmicks to make weekends as unpredictable as possible.
The only way you are ever going to get close racing in f1 is to make the cars extremely traction limited. The only way you are going to get that is with hard tires that don't provide much grip, and very simple aerodynamics.
Reverse grids are going to be nothing more than fake drama, because even with the 2021 rules drivers will have a very hard time following close enough to pass a car that's roughly equivalent to them in performance.
A lot of people want to see racing like this, but that just isn't going to happen in f1 the cars have far to much grip given their power output.
Thinking on the reverse grid thing, I'm not sure it will have much effect on the 'top cars'. The lower cars are still going to be in their own race and will lose time if they take on the front runners and lose out in short order. They know their race is not with them, they have their own job to do.
Yes the cars have to be passed, but just dropping the blue flag 'now' rule would have more effect on bunching the leaders, but from about a third the way into the race and would be more options for tyre stops.
Also, I have noticed that when one of the 'lesser' cars start in a position up among the front runners they have a far better race as they do not have to keep getting out of the way and losing several seconds each time.
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.
Even the 2021 rule changes aren't going to make much of a dent. I've seen claims that the 2021 rules mean that trailing cars will still loose 8 to 10% of their down force when following closely. When the top 10 are usually within 1% of each other 10% df loss is a lot.
there's the tow, which can easily cancel out 10% loss of downforce in the preceding corner (down from 50%). They're even talking about being able to ditch DRS possibly
Even the 2021 rule changes aren't going to make much of a dent. I've seen claims that the 2021 rules mean that trailing cars will still loose 8 to 10% of their down force when following closely. When the top 10 are usually within 1% of each other 10% df loss is a lot.
there's the tow, which can easily cancel out 10% loss of downforce in the preceding corner (down from 50%). They're even talking about being able to ditch DRS possibly
Where did you get 50% I've never seen anything above the upper 20's referenced, and that was when the trailing car was within a car length or two.
IMO, even 8% won't be enough if they ditch drs. It will be just like it was back in the 80's & 90's where you needed a significant fuel or tire life delta to get an overtake done on anything but a long strait.
for example watch how long it takes Prost in a superior car to get past Senna. Now consider how simple these cars are aerodynamically compared to today.
Imo, the problem with the latter is that most of the tracks in use today aren't suited to close racing, given the speed aerodynamics, and general performance of modern cars.
.Finally someone touches on the real problem.
All of todays track are outdated and too small and narrow.
The cars have outgrown them.
What we really need is the return of long tracks where they can stretch their legs and wide enough to have two (or more) racing lines, and of course real tires so that we have fewer marbles so we can use the wider track.
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss
