Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[Bill]

Maybe it just a reliability issue they buy fuel system from third party suppliers like Bosch and rules around fuel system are very stringent

[godlameroso]

I think Honda must be testing/experimenting something new with Kvyat car. A lot of "issues" with fuel pressure and stuff like that. And giving they changed the whole PU, maybe something new there...

What do you think?

Wouldn't put it past them. Kvyat seems to have a "I'm going to do whatever it takes" attitude. He already has a podium, they know he has the pace. If he helps Honda deliver a winner next season by starting at the back for the rest of the year so be it.

[saviour stivala]

Up to FP3 of the 16th race of this 21 race season Honda’s 4 cars would have used 24 engines between them.

[auv]

Kvyat also faced some unexpected anti-stalls in FP2. Twice at least.

[Marti_EF3]

Some experiments or new parts tested I think. He's the only car to have that type of issues. It can't be a coincidence that all issues comes from the same car on the same weekend...

[KelsO]

Some experiments or new parts tested I think. He's the only car to have that type of issues. It can't be a coincidence that all issues comes from the same car on the same weekend...

This is not like Honda's experiments, all the breakdowns were not directly related to the motor. Oil leakage, fuel system (I heard that a hose or fuel line has come off), we also don’t know what the last breakdown is connected with. All failures were directly or indirectly related to the chassis and TR. It is extremely stupid to conduct experiments on Kvyat’s car, Honda wouldn’t do that.

[Alexf1]

They brought the fuel it works. Ferrari just had too much pace this round. On to Sochi, I think RBR will be much better there as the downforce requirements are right in the car's window. Mostly mid speed corners in sector 1 & 2 which is where they are fastest of all.

Interesting! Does this explain why the PU sounded noticeably different? It was definitely more crackly and the cylinder cut occasionally sounded different. Verstappens onboard in Q3 it is very noticeable (see Juzh upload).

Still ironing out the kinks, they didn't want to unleash it all just yet. Sound is mainly due to ignition timing settings, as of now they are conservative. Good news is even with these preliminary settings it is still a bit more efficient and powerful than spec 3. There is more to come, Honda will turn it up a bit more next round should be worth another tenth and a half relative to Mercedes.

What really interests me is their concept, the fact they got it to work is very impressive, if it is what I've been led to believe. Even if other manufacturers knew the concept, highly unlikely they would be able to copy it without a year of trial and error.

Could you tell us some more about the new concept?

[63l8qrrfy6]

Speculation city.

[63l8qrrfy6]

The famous Honda Babble that happens off the throttle. It only lasts here for 2 seconds. This has been a characteristic of this engine since testing first began in November 2014. It's never left.
https://youtu.be/I8hEOwUC-Hg?t=8

The "Babble" is part-load cylinder skipping. Running a few cylinders at high load uses less fuel than running all cylinders at part load. They skip cylinders in a sequence that shares the "skip fire" around all the cylinders - in a pattern which varies depending how much load they need to shed.

I think cylinder skipping can also be a good method for AFR control at low load high boost. Firing all cylinders in this condition would make all of them very lean to the point of misfire.

[gshevlin]

The famous Honda Babble that happens off the throttle. It only lasts here for 2 seconds. This has been a characteristic of this engine since testing first began in November 2014. It's never left.
https://youtu.be/I8hEOwUC-Hg?t=8

The "Babble" is part-load cylinder skipping. Running a few cylinders at high load uses less fuel than running all cylinders at part load. They skip cylinders in a sequence that shares the "skip fire" around all the cylinders - in a pattern which varies depending how much load they need to shed.

I think cylinder skipping can also be a good method for AFR control at low load high boost. Firing all cylinders in this condition would make all of them very lean to the point of misfire.

The practice of cutting cylinders is an old one that dates from the traction control era, when it was the most common way to react to wheelspin under load. This time around it has to be activated differently however.

[McMika98]

so all that hype about spec 4.0 and still nowhere. ToroRosso were also nowhere even with all those rerirement and free tyre choice on a power circuit tells a lot.

[GhostF1]

so all that hype about spec 4.0 and still nowhere. ToroRosso were also nowhere even with all those rerirement and free tyre choice on a power circuit tells a lot.

I'm so glad you're on this forum. There was no PU based speed disadvantage with Toro Rosso, their pace is a direct result of stray and setup. Nothing to do with the PU.
Red Bull, matching, at some points exceeding Mercedes works team for outright speed on the straights. Again, their pace was not PU related.

Again I have to ask.. do you watch these races? Or do you look at the result sheet and come straight to the Honda thread and throw mud?

Btw.. maybe we should speak about the Ferrari PU failure for Vettel. That's another strike for them. I just don't get you whatsoever

[McMika98]

So question for you
Did the race pace of Honda cars meet, exceed or fall below your expectations? 3 cars were on new tyres and got safety car assist.
They stockpiles extra engines for 5 races so they can go max power. Where was it in the race?

[flexcon]

so all that hype about spec 4.0 and still nowhere. ToroRosso were also nowhere even with all those rerirement and free tyre choice on a power circuit tells a lot.

I don't know about that. Looking again at speed traps and sector times, the Redbull is roughly the same as the Mercs. However, what we don't know is if they are reducing the optimum downforce for more speed down the straight.

[GhostF1]

So question for you
Did the race pace of Honda cars meet, exceed or fall below your expectations? 3 cars were on new tyres and got safety car assist.
They stockpiles extra engines for 5 races so they can go max power. Where was it in the race?

Ok, question for you. Do you think race pace is solely engine based? I really hope you don't believe that...
Looking at onboards, RBR had zero loss on the straights to Mercedes, only to Ferrari. Mercedes had the better car in the twistys this weekend than both RBR and Ferrari. Considering we started 9th and from the pitlane, 4th and 5th was the maximum result without a severe issue hitting either Merc or Ferrari.

The stockpile was not for 5 races. I think this was explained to you before as well. Please read slow and tell me if you have gotten confused..
Alex and Pierre. New engine was brought in Spa. Which means it would have to survive 9 GP's... That will not happen. Not one manufacturer has demonstrated reliability at that level, let alone while running it at a competitive setting. Max and Kvyat took the engine in Monza. So would need to last 8 GP's, again that's pushing it. These are only designed to make 7 GP's at best. And by the looks, it doesn't look like Merc works or Ferrari works will be able to do it either, they certainly haven't elsewhere, their customer engines have well surpassed only using 3.. We'll have to wait and see if the works outfits can do that, but based on Seb's failure, probably not

Another thought. If you were RBR that is safely 3rd and not in contention for 2nd, would you sacrifice potential 10-20 points for a fresher engine?
I know I would..