The curious case of Sebastian Vettel

[Wynters]

It suits the ridiculous driver-centric narrative drivel that is spewed by PR gurus, that a driver is the entire team, single-handedly carrying them on their heroic shoulders from last on the grid to first, but it's not reality in the modern era. I'm sure there's a slightly more recent one (suggestions welcome), but the only one that springs to mind is Bruce McLaren. Financier, designer and driver, building the team up from scratch.

Yet the opposite view that the driver just drives the car that the engineers built I also find lacking.

Very true. As is so often the case, the reality is more complex and nuanced than the lowest common denominator PR fantasy.

[raymondu999]

I think the big thing is Seb is a momentum driver, whereas Charles is seemingly a direction driver. Seb likes to carry speed across corners whereas Charles seems like someone who likes to point the car and get a straighter exit.

Looking at the onboard comparisons of ghe last few races, I think (contrary to popular belief) that the Ferrari’s advantage is not power; but torque. That second phase of the exit when cars arent traction limited is where the Ferraris are stronger than the Mercs, not at the end of straights.

With Ferrari’s lower cornering performance Vettel’s momentum “style” is more disadvantaged than Leclerc’s; and whatever speed deficit Leclerc has on any apex would be countered by the Ferrari’s greater early acceleration

[Just_a_fan]

I think (contrary to popular belief) that the Ferrari’s advantage is not power; but torque.

That'll be low speed power then.

[raymondu999]

I think (contrary to popular belief) that the Ferrari’s advantage is not power; but torque.

That'll be low speed power then.

I’m no engineer; I’m just saying I believe their advantage is not in their top end

[Sevach]

I think the big thing is Seb is a momentum driver, whereas Charles is seemingly a direction driver. Seb likes to carry speed across corners whereas Charles seems like someone who likes to point the car and get a straighter exit.

Looking at the onboard comparisons of ghe last few races, I think (contrary to popular belief) that the Ferrari’s advantage is not power; but torque. That second phase of the exit when cars arent traction limited is where the Ferraris are stronger than the Mercs, not at the end of straights.

With Ferrari’s lower cornering performance Vettel’s momentum “style” is more disadvantaged than Leclerc’s; and whatever speed deficit Leclerc has on any apex would be countered by the Ferrari’s greater early acceleration

Every engine in the grid is a torquey engine, with fuel flow restrictions no one is gaining power through revs, Ferrari being the best engine currently it probably means it's superior in that area too.

Leclerc seems very Alonso-like in terms of how he forces the car into position and can keep momentum through instabilities that show, Vettel indeed is a "flow" driver, high apex speeds and focus on being clean, precise.

Vettel did have killer pace on race day it must be said.

[Jolle]

I think the big thing is Seb is a momentum driver, whereas Charles is seemingly a direction driver. Seb likes to carry speed across corners whereas Charles seems like someone who likes to point the car and get a straighter exit.

Looking at the onboard comparisons of ghe last few races, I think (contrary to popular belief) that the Ferrari’s advantage is not power; but torque. That second phase of the exit when cars arent traction limited is where the Ferraris are stronger than the Mercs, not at the end of straights.

With Ferrari’s lower cornering performance Vettel’s momentum “style” is more disadvantaged than Leclerc’s; and whatever speed deficit Leclerc has on any apex would be countered by the Ferrari’s greater early acceleration

Every engine in the grid is a torquey engine, with fuel flow restrictions no one is gaining power through revs, Ferrari being the best engine currently it probably means it's superior in that area too.

Leclerc seems very Alonso-like in terms of how he forces the car into position and can keep momentum through instabilities that show, Vettel indeed is a "flow" driver, high apex speeds and focus on being clean, precise.

Vettel did have killer pace on race day it must be said.

If an engine makes its power at 10.500 or 18.000 revs doesn't matter, because of gearboxes... the actual power and torque on the rear wheels are the same.

[Manoah2u]

As for Vettel,
it's really really unfortunate that he had a DNF in Sochi

He showed his true potential this race, he drove amazing and like the Vettel we once knew.
Which proves that when he's focused and going for it, he is blisteringly fast.

[ENGINE TUNER]

I think the big thing is Seb is a momentum driver, whereas Charles is seemingly a direction driver. Seb likes to carry speed across corners whereas Charles seems like someone who likes to point the car and get a straighter exit.

Looking at the onboard comparisons of ghe last few races, I think (contrary to popular belief) that the Ferrari’s advantage is not power; but torque. That second phase of the exit when cars arent traction limited is where the Ferraris are stronger than the Mercs, not at the end of straights.

With Ferrari’s lower cornering performance Vettel’s momentum “style” is more disadvantaged than Leclerc’s; and whatever speed deficit Leclerc has on any apex would be countered by the Ferrari’s greater early acceleration

Every engine in the grid is a torquey engine, with fuel flow restrictions no one is gaining power through revs, Ferrari being the best engine currently it probably means it's superior in that area too.

Leclerc seems very Alonso-like in terms of how he forces the car into position and can keep momentum through instabilities that show, Vettel indeed is a "flow" driver, high apex speeds and focus on being clean, precise.

Vettel did have killer pace on race day it must be said.

If an engine makes its power at 10.500 or 18.000 revs doesn't matter, because of gearboxes... the actual power and torque on the rear wheels are the same.

Exactly, but the Ferrari seems to have better traction to put more power down. They also seem to have lower drag in the midsection(sodepods/radiator inlet) area of the car.

[ENGINE TUNER]

As for Vettel,
it's really really unfortunate that he had a DNF in Sochi

He showed his true potential this race, he drove amazing and like the Vettel we once knew.
Which proves that when he's focused and going for it, he is blisteringly fast.

He didn't do anything special other than disobey team agreement/orders.

He was made to look silly in qually by both LEC and HAM.

Well for once he didn't spin or crash, I guess that is special for him.

[ENGINE TUNER]

It suits the ridiculous driver-centric narrative drivel that is spewed by PR gurus, that a driver is the entire team, single-handedly carrying them on their heroic shoulders from last on the grid to first, but it's not reality in the modern era. I'm sure there's a slightly more recent one (suggestions welcome), but the only one that springs to mind is Bruce McLaren. Financier, designer and driver, building the team up from scratch.

Yet the opposite view that the driver just drives the car that the engineers built I also find lacking.

Very true. As is so often the case, the reality is more complex and nuanced than the lowest common denominator PR fantasy.

But the driver is the last and most important link in the chain(the anchor leg), a driver can take the fastest car and put it in the wall like vettel did in Germany 2018, or even take out both the teams' cars like he did in Spa 2016 or Singapore 2017, or he can take a slower car and extract every ounce of performance out of it in poor conditions like we have seen Senna do in Donington 93.

[ab_f1]

Interesting discussion.
I rate Rosberg slightly higher than Vettel
a) Went against top tier driver and won. Raised his game to that level
b) Knew when to quit

[turbof1]

As for Vettel,
it's really really unfortunate that he had a DNF in Sochi

He showed his true potential this race, he drove amazing and like the Vettel we once knew.
Which proves that when he's focused and going for it, he is blisteringly fast.

He didn't do anything special other than disobey team agreement/orders.

He was made to look silly in qually by both LEC and HAM.

Well for once he didn't spin or crash, I guess that is special for him.

That's a bit too toxic and unreasonable, especially given Manoah2u specifically spoke about "this race". His first stint pace was better than Charles, who overcooked his tyres. Vettel did drive well. Could he have qualified better? Sure; he has been outqualified in the last 8 Grand Prix' by Charles. He did still have the race pace.

I'll leave it in the middle if Vettel disobeyed the pre-agreed strategy. Yes, he ignored a direct order, but he might have given the place to Charles deeper into the race when it was safer to do so.

Let us not stray into overly hatred or loving for the man. Obviously he is having a rough time and overall Leclerc is better, but let us stay objective and reasonable, shall we.

[ENGINE TUNER]

That's a bit too toxic and unreasonable, especially given Manoah2u specifically spoke about "this race". His first stint pace was better than Charles, who overcooked his tyres. Vettel did drive well. Could he have qualified better? Sure; he has been outqualified in the last 8 Grand Prix' by Charles. He did still have the race pace.

I'll leave it in the middle if Vettel disobeyed the pre-agreed strategy. Yes, he ignored a direct order, but he might have given the place to Charles deeper into the race when it was safer to do so.

He outpaced LEC over the first stint only because he was in the lead with clean air that he should have given back within the first 5 laps. As has been mentioned several times in the race thread, LEC kept within 2s for the first 9 laps. If LEC overcooked his tires it was because he was keeping close to VET expecting VET to follow the team agreement/orders.

VET showed nothing special in sochi, except for his ability to go back on an agreement, AGAIN, not necessarily a good thing.

[marmer]

Interesting discussion.
I rate Rosberg slightly higher than Vettel
a) Went against top tier driver and won. Raised his game to that level
b) Knew when to quit

Funny I don't remember Nico driving particularly better that season Hamilton had a bad year from himself compared to other seasons. Plus one more dnf equals Nico wins by 5 points.

Nico was decent but he was not better than seb.

[dans79]

Interesting discussion.
I rate Rosberg slightly higher than Vettel
a) Went against top tier driver and won. Raised his game to that level
b) Knew when to quit

Funny I don't remember Nico driving particularly better that season Hamilton had a bad year from himself compared to other seasons. Plus one more dnf equals Nico wins by 5 points.

Nico was decent but he was not better than seb.

Agreed,

Nico won for 2 main reasons.

1. Lewis's ICE failure in Sepang
2. Lewis did not getting on top of his starts (AUS, BHR, ITA, JAP).