2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

[JRindt]

i dont know how accurate this is, and in spanish so used translate,

https://extraconfidencial.com/noticias/ ... motorista/

I don’t know. The name of the website itself screams conspiracy theory.
Besides, I read somewhere that the negotiations started before summer break (Sorry. Couldn’t find the link). But, the article cites the performance difference in Monza as the root cause of suspicion that Renault are running their engines harder than McLaren.

[mclaren111]

Fastest Pitstop for Norris...

http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/view/ ... d_shrink_/

[Manoah2u]

The article seems to suggest that Renault 'works' team are somehow not supplying the same PU or software to Mclaren as they are getting. And this is the reason they have moved to Merc. Either way, the merc engine is powerful and reliable so its a sideways step for Mclaren rather than a real step forward. Next year's car with the Renault engine is promised to be the real deal, so we will see what they can produce- but its not for lacking HP at the moment. Mclaren have a good race car, whose only weakness seems to be Quali and very low DF tracks like Canada and Monza Spa where the Works renault team seem to catch up. Other than that it seems to be another step forward. I feel as though Zak brown always wanted the Prestige of the Merc Brand over Renault as it helps them globally, i will miss the way he says 'Renault' with the american accent though..

Wouldn't be surprised to see the supposed upcoming Mclaren F1 with a Mercedes engine to furhter 'label' the deal.

I don't think it's a sidestep, it is for a part offcourse, and they need to fit that Merc spec engine into their chassis, but the Mercedes engine is in all aspects better than the Renault one and will continue to be.

To be honest i never really 'felt' the McLaren-Renault combo. It's not really a match imo. Mclaren-Mercedes seems much more fitting.

And let's face it, Renault is aiming for their own success with their 'works' team, with Ricciardo and Ocon. So there's not going to be much focus from Renault on Mclaren. They're gonna go for themselves first anyway.
Now let's say that same would go with Mercedes as they have their own works team, so Mclaren will always be 'nr2'.
Thing is, the difference here is, since it won't make difference in that area, in the end, the Mercedes engine is in all areas better than the Renault engine so yeah, it's really not that hard to concider why one would go for Merc engines.

Now to get a top driver in the team. Sainz is good, but not a top driver. And i'm sorry but i'm not feeling like Norris is a top driver either. He's a Kovalainen at best. And Sainz is not Alonso level either. Let's say there are two Kovalainens at Mclaren right now.

They'll need a star driver by 2021.
Which will make things interesting again, as who would fit that shoe?

Hamilton back at Mclaren? even though i think he will go to Ferrari, oddly enough, Mclaren might be more of a 'home' and as such interesting environment to bring Mclaren back to the top and go full circle from where he started.
Still, i don't think Lewis will go back to Mclaren.

So which top drivers are there to pick up?

Verstappen surely will be interesting. Would be interesting to see Verstappen in an orange Mclaren. But to be honest, i don't see so much improvement for Max to go from a works team to a non-works team. After all, Honda is focused on RB and Verstappen. So i'd say RB would be better stay for Max. Then again, they seem to keep 'stuck' in the position they're in, and i could see Verstappen going to Mercedes over Mclaren instead.

Now, Ocon could be much more interesting to think about. I don't think he's a star driver, but i feel like he's a tad better than either Sainz or Norris to be honest. Ocon was a Mercedes driver that's now placed at Renault, but if Mclaren goes for Mercedes engines despite having Renault right now, then we could see something funny happening: Sainz going back to Renault and Ocon going to Mclaren. Or it will be Ricciardo to Mclaren. I think the grey sterile environment of Mclaren is starting to disappear slowly now that Brown is in charge, and i think it would be VERY interesting to see Aussie Ricciardo in Mclaren - from origin, an Aussie 'brand'.

Would love to see that big smile in a Mclaren that performs.

[aran.vtec]

i dont know how accurate this is, and in spanish so used translate,

https://extraconfidencial.com/noticias/ ... motorista/

2017 Toro rosso comes to mind

[PowerandtheGlory]

The article seems to suggest that Renault 'works' team are somehow not supplying the same PU or software to Mclaren as they are getting. And this is the reason they have moved to Merc. Either way, the merc engine is powerful and reliable so its a sideways step for Mclaren rather than a real step forward. Next year's car with the Renault engine is promised to be the real deal, so we will see what they can produce- but its not for lacking HP at the moment. Mclaren have a good race car, whose only weakness seems to be Quali and very low DF tracks like Canada and Monza Spa where the Works renault team seem to catch up. Other than that it seems to be another step forward. I feel as though Zak brown always wanted the Prestige of the Merc Brand over Renault as it helps them globally, i will miss the way he says 'Renault' with the american accent though..

Wouldn't be surprised to see the supposed upcoming Mclaren F1 with a Mercedes engine to furhter 'label' the deal.

I don't think it's a sidestep, it is for a part offcourse, and they need to fit that Merc spec engine into their chassis, but the Mercedes engine is in all aspects better than the Renault one and will continue to be.

To be honest i never really 'felt' the McLaren-Renault combo. It's not really a match imo. Mclaren-Mercedes seems much more fitting.

And let's face it, Renault is aiming for their own success with their 'works' team, with Ricciardo and Ocon. So there's not going to be much focus from Renault on Mclaren. They're gonna go for themselves first anyway.
Now let's say that same would go with Mercedes as they have their own works team, so Mclaren will always be 'nr2'.
Thing is, the difference here is, since it won't make difference in that area, in the end, the Mercedes engine is in all areas better than the Renault engine so yeah, it's really not that hard to concider why one would go for Merc engines.

Now to get a top driver in the team. Sainz is good, but not a top driver. And i'm sorry but i'm not feeling like Norris is a top driver either. He's a Kovalainen at best. And Sainz is not Alonso level either. Let's say there are two Kovalainens at Mclaren right now.

They'll need a star driver by 2021.
Which will make things interesting again, as who would fit that shoe?

Hamilton back at Mclaren? even though i think he will go to Ferrari, oddly enough, Mclaren might be more of a 'home' and as such interesting environment to bring Mclaren back to the top and go full circle from where he started.
Still, i don't think Lewis will go back to Mclaren.

So which top drivers are there to pick up?

Verstappen surely will be interesting. Would be interesting to see Verstappen in an orange Mclaren. But to be honest, i don't see so much improvement for Max to go from a works team to a non-works team. After all, Honda is focused on RB and Verstappen. So i'd say RB would be better stay for Max. Then again, they seem to keep 'stuck' in the position they're in, and i could see Verstappen going to Mercedes over Mclaren instead.

Now, Ocon could be much more interesting to think about. I don't think he's a star driver, but i feel like he's a tad better than either Sainz or Norris to be honest. Ocon was a Mercedes driver that's now placed at Renault, but if Mclaren goes for Mercedes engines despite having Renault right now, then we could see something funny happening: Sainz going back to Renault and Ocon going to Mclaren. Or it will be Ricciardo to Mclaren. I think the grey sterile environment of Mclaren is starting to disappear slowly now that Brown is in charge, and i think it would be VERY interesting to see Aussie Ricciardo in Mclaren - from origin, an Aussie 'brand'.

Would love to see that big smile in a Mclaren that performs.

The engine benchmark is Ferrari now, and as we can see from Quali even Honda can turn things up (even if they do like to use a lot of parts...)
Merc have a solid engine no doubt, but the failures for Perez and Kubica in Spa Monza show that its not 100% and they are not the runaway winners they once were, amazing how things can change so quickly in F1- they got a Freebie in Sochi because Ferrari had to stop vettel straightaway - notice how Vettel exited his car by jumping - which is code for if the team think the energy store has electrocuted the car..
I think the biggest issue is that Mclaren ALWAYS wanted to go back to Merc but couldn't, so that's why they got Renault.
Renault don't want to supply a team taking points off them - which they are so its better team wise, but again i think Renault will be dissapointed to not supply somebody else.. they need the Euro's
a Junior team would maybe help them but can they get the funding to run one? the Renault board wouldnt sign that off...

Hamilton will never go back to Mclaren, because Ferrari is the 'only' other place that could pay him 40-50 million per year... Plus its Hamilton's bucket list..

Im a bit more positive about Norris and Sainz, dont get me wrong im not sure they could go win a title, but ive been impressed with both this year- especially keeping out of trouble and playing the points game. I think 4th in the championship and the financial reward will be fitting for the team on the rebound.
Next year they are trying to do Redbull and move up- time will tell.

Mclaren cars already make their own engines so no need to drop in a Merc when they can already create a 950BHP engine in the P1 and next version P1... so the Merc deal is more f1 only..

And in the States where Zak's own sports marketing company operates its much easier to promote a Mclaren Mercedes than a Mclaren- French baguette..

Alonso is a huge carrot on the stick for commercial reasons and is very popular, he would bring Kudos and money to a team. Still think he could come back and drive for Mclaren- but Zak cant pay him 40 million...

Mclaren take a small step, but as we've seen with Force india - simply having a Merc engine and loads of Money from Mr Stroll - you cant immediately jump up the grid..

[Ground Effect]

I think we have to take the report with a pinch of salt. It’s so common these days, when an important story breaks, some alleged journalists shift gears into overdrive. It’s largely about filling in the blanks, coming up with a possible scenario from their imagination, hedging bets, suppositions, guesswork and some cases flat out making stuff up aka lying. They never break the actual story, guys like Joe Saward breaks a story, then all of a sudden extra confidential come up with all the “insider” details. That said, they could be correct, but I’ve already picked a few holes in their story.

[FittingMechanics]

I honestly doubt there is a performance difference between the engines. It would be illegal and would be very risky for Renault to do if McLaren found out. Again, if McLaren found out, why would McLaren go about it so casually letting them have it and moving to Mercedes after a season and a half. Renault may be able to better utilize their engine or have their parts pass through a more rigorous QA process but I doubt they are giving less horse power.

My gut feeling is that Seidl is probably betting that Mercedes will end their F1 participation in the next 5-10 years.

Today there is a major issue if Mercedes pulls out and that is that their current customers are not capable of wins. It's unlikely they will challenge for wins in the near future. This means that Mercedes either needs to stay in F1 as a works team, or they need to accept having their engines in midfield cars. When McLaren gets Mercedes power, if they are able to fight for wins and podiums, this makes it possible for Mercedes to pull out as chassis manufacturer and still have their engines fight for wins.

Toto Wolff said that they wanted to have a more competitive customer team. This kind of statement is in allignment with Mercedes having more options for pullout if McLaren does OK. Seidl is probably well informed and can guess what the board of Mercedes might want to do down the line.

In the end, having Mercedes power will give McLaren a clear benchmark and remove any kind of potential excuses. Hopefully it will mean an power increase and reliability improvement, all of which will help them catch up to top 3.

[bauc]

Mclaren now has more points in 2019 than 2018 & 2017 combined

2019 up to now: 101 points

2018, 62 points
2017, 30 points

[diffuser]

i dont know how accurate this is, and in spanish so used translate,

https://extraconfidencial.com/noticias/ ... motorista/

Interesting but I don't believe it. They never go ahead and explain how they get the different software past the FIA.

[diffuser]

I honestly doubt there is a performance difference between the engines. It would be illegal and would be very risky for Renault to do if McLaren found out. Again, if McLaren found out, why would McLaren go about it so casually letting them have it and moving to Mercedes after a season and a half. Renault may be able to better utilize their engine or have their parts pass through a more rigorous QA process but I doubt they are giving less horse power.

My gut feeling is that Seidl is probably betting that Mercedes will end their F1 participation in the next 5-10 years.

Today there is a major issue if Mercedes pulls out and that is that their current customers are not capable of wins. It's unlikely they will challenge for wins in the near future. This means that Mercedes either needs to stay in F1 as a works team, or they need to accept having their engines in midfield cars. When McLaren gets Mercedes power, if they are able to fight for wins and podiums, this makes it possible for Mercedes to pull out as chassis manufacturer and still have their engines fight for wins.

Toto Wolff said that they wanted to have a more competitive customer team. This kind of statement is in allignment with Mercedes having more options for pullout if McLaren does OK. Seidl is probably well informed and can guess what the board of Mercedes might want to do down the line.

In the end, having Mercedes power will give McLaren a clear benchmark and remove any kind of potential excuses. Hopefully it will mean an power increase and reliability improvement, all of which will help them catch up to top 3.

I agree with everything you say except that Wolff said Merc have no plans of pulling out. "The opposite" he said on Sky sports. Also Racing Point are slowly turning into quiet the team now that they have real financial backing.

[GhostF1]

i dont know how accurate this is, and in spanish so used translate,

https://extraconfidencial.com/noticias/ ... motorista/

Interesting but I don't believe it. They never go ahead and explain how they get the different software past the FIA.

I mean, even if it were true, I'm sure you'd still say it was bogus right?

[RonDennis]

Well at least the 'village idiot' was right.

[diffuser]

i dont know how accurate this is, and in spanish so used translate,

https://extraconfidencial.com/noticias/ ... motorista/

Interesting but I don't believe it. They never go ahead and explain how they get the different software past the FIA.

I mean, even if it were true, I'm sure you'd still say it was bogus right?

Like I said, they'd have to convinced me of how they were lieing to the FIA and getting away with it.

[rogazilla]

This is good for McLaren AND Mercedez at this time. Merc gets another team and another vote for direction of 2021 rule changes and this is probably more important to them and who knows what development path they have already been testing and wouldn't be surprised they are trying to have a leg up on others like they did in 2014.

From Mclaren's perspective, Renault did not have a good track record dealing with this hybrid change. Merc is a better bet to get it right in 2021. Of course no one can predict the future but it is safer to go with Merc during rule change rather than Renault.

[FittingMechanics]

I agree with everything you say except that Wolff said Merc have no plans of pulling out. "The opposite" he said on Sky sports. Also Racing Point are slowly turning into quiet the team now that they have real financial backing.

Even if they have plans, Toto would probably say they don't have such plans, it's just the nature of things.

To be clear, I am not saying Mercedes are planning to leave the sport, but maybe they are making contingencies. Getting a competitive, potentially (hopefully) top team to use Mercedes engine is such a contingency.

McLaren and Seidl probably see it as a win win situation, if they don't leave, McLaren is still running a really good competitive engine with proven reliability, and if they leave, McLaren inherits a "works" deal.