Honda F1 project leader Yusuke Hasegawa has outlined a number of reasons why Honda has been struggling so badly in the beginning of the 2017 Formula One season. He confirmed that lots of problems were not discovered while running on the dynamo meter.
There was NO new fuel in Singapore. It was not ready.godlameroso wrote: ↑30 Sep 2019, 15:11.
I said they brought fuel, whether it was used at any point, I don't know. Could have been on one or two cars, could have been used only in practice and not raced.
Lying, no, that's a harsh way of looking at it. There was fuel brought to Singapore, it is not the fuel that will be used in Suzuka. It was similar to the fuel used since the summer break, I know for a fact there was some validation testing going on since Singapore. Part of it having to do with Kvyat's many engine changes. He's on his 3rd spec 4 full PU.Wouter wrote: ↑30 Sep 2019, 15:33There was NO new fuel in Singapore. It was not ready.godlameroso wrote: ↑30 Sep 2019, 15:11.
I said they brought fuel, whether it was used at any point, I don't know. Could have been on one or two cars, could have been used only in practice and not raced.
David Tsurusaki from ExxonMobil (Global Motorsport Technology Manager) confirmed this.
So according to you he is lying??
The KVYAT engine malfunction has had me very worried. I was already expecting he was being used as the Guinea pig (or as we say here, "the test rabbit"). The fact that Max was so optimistic on Friday (cheeky, happy) and that on Saturday (after the KVYAT engine shut down) and ofcourse Max himselve only being able to go P4 and being suddenly so downbeat, contributed to that feeling enormously. Hope that that was not a gaint setback.godlameroso wrote: ↑30 Sep 2019, 16:09Lying, no, that's a harsh way of looking at it. There was fuel brought to Singapore, it is not the fuel that will be used in Suzuka. It was similar to the fuel used since the summer break, I know for a fact there was some validation testing going on since Singapore. Part of it having to do with Kvyat's many engine changes. He's on his 3rd spec 4 full PU.Wouter wrote: ↑30 Sep 2019, 15:33There was NO new fuel in Singapore. It was not ready.godlameroso wrote: ↑30 Sep 2019, 15:11
.
I said they brought fuel, whether it was used at any point, I don't know. Could have been on one or two cars, could have been used only in practice and not raced.
David Tsurusaki from ExxonMobil (Global Motorsport Technology Manager) confirmed this.
So according to you he is lying??
The type of combustion modeling needed to improve the combustion concept itself is beyond the budget and scope of any of the engine manufacturers. Only large petrochemical companies have the supercomputers, and staff needed to make the advances. Not only do they tailor the fuel to the power units, but they also help develop they power units themselves, particularly the combustion side. Combustion reactions happen in micro and nano second time scales, the fuel providers have equipment that can work in those time scales. Manufacturers work on thermodynamics side, which is cake compared to fuel chemical kinetics.Sieper wrote: ↑30 Sep 2019, 15:55May I say something very stupid?
I am doing it all the time so why not once more
Isn't the fuel story just marketing?
I once (years ago) read the Mercedes materials surrounding their engine and how they developed it. They stated they design it all in house and the whole concept is thought of and engineered by a team. That included the fuels and the lubricants. If they make an improvement to the ICE then all aspects are involved. I do believe it straight away that if you can have a fuel that (even if just slightly) can prevent (make margins of unpredictability smaller) any premature exploding of the mixture that really helps total power output. But it sounds also totally logical that the same team that design the combustion process also tailors the fuel to need. So the MERC AMG engine team, not anybody in Malaysia at Petronas. They just pay an (enormous) amount to be sponsor and then every once in a while Mercedes communicates that thanks to the good guys at Petronas we can now have x HP more, great fuels by a great company, thank you! so much!
Now, don't all engine builders do the same? Ferrari with Shell, RBR/Honda with Esso Mobil and Renault with BP (and Castrol for lubricants).
So isn't this whole "bringing new fuel" actually a marketing story, it is just the team of engineers who developed a total concept that should allow X number of HP and it is just a decision/dare to use it close to the limit. of course the fuel is part of it but it is not like Esso engineers have been developing that somewhere in (where are they even?) their research department but just by the HRD team in Sakura. Perhaps assisted by, if those fuel companies actually have those kind of engineers?
If the engine blows it is Honda who suffers. So it will be Honda who needs to oversee.
These oil companies have allot of chemical experience and combustion knowledge. They also have a very big pool of skilled personel, to draw their F1 specialists from.Sieper wrote: ↑30 Sep 2019, 15:55May I say something very stupid?
I am doing it all the time so why not once more
Isn't the fuel story just marketing?
I once (years ago) read the Mercedes materials surrounding their engine and how they developed it. They stated they design it all in house and the whole concept is thought of and engineered by a team. That included the fuels and the lubricants. If they make an improvement to the ICE then all aspects are involved. I do believe it straight away that if you can have a fuel that (even if just slightly) can prevent (make margins of unpredictability smaller) any premature exploding of the mixture that really helps total power output. But it sounds also totally logical that the same team that design the combustion process also tailors the fuel to need. So the MERC AMG engine team, not anybody in Malaysia at Petronas. They just pay an (enormous) amount to be sponsor and then every once in a while Mercedes communicates that thanks to the good guys at Petronas we can now have x HP more, great fuels by a great company, thank you! so much!
Now, don't all engine builders do the same? Ferrari with Shell, RBR/Honda with Esso Mobil and Renault with BP (and Castrol for lubricants).
So isn't this whole "bringing new fuel" actually a marketing story, it is just the team of engineers who developed a total concept that should allow X number of HP and it is just a decision/dare to use it close to the limit. of course the fuel is part of it but it is not like Esso engineers have been developing that somewhere in (where are they even?) their research department but just by the HRD team in Sakura. Perhaps assisted by, if those fuel companies actually have those kind of engineers?
If the engine blows it is Honda who suffers. So it will be Honda who needs to oversee.
You also have to take into consideration the resources available to these petrochemical companies. The world revolves around energy they provide through fuel, billions of tons of fuel are sold daily and they get a cut. They have massive manufacturing capacities, they have the latest cutting edge super computers at their disposal for research they're already doing. Esso made a net profit on the books of $20 billion+ after $279 billion in revenue(Double that of Daimler AG). The biggest budget in F1 maybe reaches 1 billion with the engine and chassis team + support staff combined, over 2 years.NL_Fer wrote: ↑30 Sep 2019, 19:28These oil companies have allot of chemical experience and combustion knowledge. They also have a very big pool of skilled personel, to draw their F1 specialists from.Sieper wrote: ↑30 Sep 2019, 15:55May I say something very stupid?
I am doing it all the time so why not once more
Isn't the fuel story just marketing?
I once (years ago) read the Mercedes materials surrounding their engine and how they developed it. They stated they design it all in house and the whole concept is thought of and engineered by a team. That included the fuels and the lubricants. If they make an improvement to the ICE then all aspects are involved. I do believe it straight away that if you can have a fuel that (even if just slightly) can prevent (make margins of unpredictability smaller) any premature exploding of the mixture that really helps total power output. But it sounds also totally logical that the same team that design the combustion process also tailors the fuel to need. So the MERC AMG engine team, not anybody in Malaysia at Petronas. They just pay an (enormous) amount to be sponsor and then every once in a while Mercedes communicates that thanks to the good guys at Petronas we can now have x HP more, great fuels by a great company, thank you! so much!
Now, don't all engine builders do the same? Ferrari with Shell, RBR/Honda with Esso Mobil and Renault with BP (and Castrol for lubricants).
So isn't this whole "bringing new fuel" actually a marketing story, it is just the team of engineers who developed a total concept that should allow X number of HP and it is just a decision/dare to use it close to the limit. of course the fuel is part of it but it is not like Esso engineers have been developing that somewhere in (where are they even?) their research department but just by the HRD team in Sakura. Perhaps assisted by, if those fuel companies actually have those kind of engineers?
If the engine blows it is Honda who suffers. So it will be Honda who needs to oversee.
Yes the F1 fuels and lubricant teams are made by special teams, close to the engine teams and probably located in Germany, Italy, France, Japan and the UK and probably Petronas hired, Shell Italians, etc... But they are still employed by the fuel supplier.
Like what?aleshondas wrote: ↑05 Oct 2019, 22:28Is there any way that Honda can copy some things from Moto gp??
