The curious case of Sebastian Vettel

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Andres125sx
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Re: The curious case of Sebastian Vettel

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digitalrurouni wrote:
03 Oct 2019, 14:42
I don't get it what does Ferrari exactly want? Get closer to the WDC or the WCC or both? Wouldn't at this point in the game be focusing on getting as many 1-2s as possible and not give a crap about who is doing the winning as long as it's a 1-2? That would boost morale at the factory and bode well for next year's championship attack?
That´s exactly what they´re trying, Sochi proved it with Lecrerc not defending when Seb passed him at the start, and also when the team asked him to let Charles pass in next laps.

Seb ignoring his team was a different matter tough #-o

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Re: The curious case of Sebastian Vettel

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NathanOlder wrote:
20 Sep 2019, 23:29
izzy wrote:
20 Sep 2019, 22:10
Seb wanted to emulate Schumi didn't he, but he doesn't quite have that extreme level. Schumi was the best of his generation, and Lewis not Seb is the best of the next generation.

But Schumi didn't build the team, it was a lot of people wanted to be in his team, so the best people could get picked. Same with Lewis: he didn't build Mercedes, but a lot of people want to be in his team, because they know he'll maximise with the car. Having the best driver is a virtuous circle that makes the whole team work better, because the closer you are to winning the more motivated you are, and in that way Schumi and Lewis are on the same level. Across generations Lewis imo is a vastly better sportsman than Schumi, because he sees the difference between being the best and just accumulating wins any which way. But they both had/have that maximising effect.

With poor Seb the opposite has applied obviously, wasting an amazing car with mistakes year after year, must have been driving Ferrari people mad! Hence Charles not Kimi now.
Totally agree with this. spot on mate.
It's perplexing how in almost every field those officials who are responsible for scouting and hunting talents, willfully blind themselves in hiring a successful or famous person, even though all the time, for a regular follower of the sport, it has been very apparent that his success doesn't really reflect the CV.

And the worst part is, it's entirely true that a simple computer program with all statistics can easily predict the weaknesses, strength and thus the amount of luck factor and how being in the right place at the right time has biased the CV output.

I'm yet to see a field where people think rationally. I'm seeing this in all the field. Most obvious examples are the football managers, who despite being completely destroying a season of a club, is able to draw the dream offers without batting an eye, even after being sacked after consecutive incompetences.

Not only Ferrari was wrong to delude themselves by signing vettel but also degraded and delayed the progress of an obvious talent who in my opinion has the capability to supercede the greatest racers of all time.

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raymondu999
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Re: The curious case of Sebastian Vettel

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I hate reviving dormant threads.

But I just stumbled across this (albeit old) article which I dont think anyone has posted yet; and I think is a good assessment of the situation https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/32420 ... s-mistakes
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: The curious case of Sebastian Vettel

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So baby schumi he is not then.
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Wass85
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Re: The curious case of Sebastian Vettel

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It's horses for courses, does him struggling a little at Ferrari mean any good driver would beat him those years at Redbull, no it doesn't. I don't think he's ever been great at wheel to wheel racing though and when your car is clearly not best anymore that flaw will always rear it's ugly head.

He has just shown at Suzuka the speed is there, he just needs to find it more consistently. Let's not forget though he is facing a massively talented youngster now at Ferrari.

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NathanOlder
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Re: The curious case of Sebastian Vettel

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Yeah, I think the remaining races are very important in that they may have a big influence on how 2020 will shape up.
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raymondu999
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Re: The curious case of Sebastian Vettel

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NathanOlder wrote:
19 Oct 2019, 11:32
Yeah, I think the remaining races are very important in that they may have a big influence on how 2020 will shape up.
lol isn't that basically almost by definition?
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NathanOlder
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Re: The curious case of Sebastian Vettel

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raymondu999 wrote:
21 Oct 2019, 16:38
NathanOlder wrote:
19 Oct 2019, 11:32
Yeah, I think the remaining races are very important in that they may have a big influence on how 2020 will shape up.
lol isn't that basically almost by definition?
I think If Charles beats Seb in 3 or all of the remaining races. Seb will struggle to recover. If Seb beats Charles in 3 or all of the remaining races, he will be strong and mentally well prepared for 2020.
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Re: The curious case of Sebastian Vettel

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Wass85 wrote:
19 Oct 2019, 11:26
It's horses for courses, does him struggling a little at Ferrari mean any good driver would beat him those years at Redbull, no it doesn't. I don't think he's ever been great at wheel to wheel racing though and when your car is clearly not best anymore that flaw will always rear it's ugly head.

He has just shown at Suzuka the speed is there, he just needs to find it more consistently. Let's not forget though he is facing a massively talented youngster now at Ferrari.
He didn't show anything in Suzuka other than that he was minutely faster than a 2nd year driver who had barely ever been to Suzuka. Remember qually last year was wet, and then LEC'S race was cut short because of MAG's nonsense. This was VET's 12th trip to Suzuka maybe? Quite a bit of experience difference. The difference between them in Q3 was less than 2 tenths.

VET has shown nothing good this year. He has had several poor seasons, but this might actually be his worse, but considering that he has a strong driver next to him for the first time in a long time, maybe it isn't.

There is nothing "curious" about Vettel, he's always been mistake and crash prone, always been flattered by his machinery(as have many drivers in Newey rocketships). Alonso and Hamilton have long known and said publicly that Vettel wasn't in that top class of drivers. Vettel is easily the worst multi wdc driver in F1 history.

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Re: The curious case of Sebastian Vettel

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raymondu999 wrote:
12 Oct 2019, 14:21
I hate reviving dormant threads.

But I just stumbled across this (albeit old) article which I dont think anyone has posted yet; and I think is a good assessment of the situation https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/32420 ... s-mistakes
What a load of crock. Vettel apologists are silly. He keeps causing unnecessary accidents and making silly mistakes and they are nobody's fault except his own. Why weren't there as many Maldonado and Grosjean apologists? They are just as fast and just as accident/mistake prone as Vettel. Ferrari gave VET the fastest car in Bahrain, he spins. Fastest car in Japan, jump start. He had absolutely no pressure in Germany last year, Hamilton started 16th or something, vettel puts it in the wall. It's not RBR, or Ferrari or pressure, IT IS VETTEL, he is the problem, always has been.

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Re: The curious case of Sebastian Vettel

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
12 Oct 2019, 23:19
So baby schumi he is not then.
Retired now, been re-watching old races, Schumi made alot more mistakes than I remembered. He might actually be baby Schumi, but without a dream team (Todt, Brawn, Byrne) behind him. Plus both intentional crashed into competitors.

Jolle
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Re: The curious case of Sebastian Vettel

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ENGINE TUNER wrote:
21 Oct 2019, 18:53
PlatinumZealot wrote:
12 Oct 2019, 23:19
So baby schumi he is not then.
Retired now, been re-watching old races, Schumi made alot more mistakes than I remembered. He might actually be baby Schumi, but without a dream team (Todt, Brawn, Byrne) behind him. Plus both intentional crashed into competitors.
Yes, I said that on this forum before. All the greats made plenty of mistakes. It’s just Hamilton who defined this as a new standard in recent years.

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Re: The curious case of Sebastian Vettel

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Jolle wrote:
21 Oct 2019, 19:28
ENGINE TUNER wrote:
21 Oct 2019, 18:53
PlatinumZealot wrote:
12 Oct 2019, 23:19
So baby schumi he is not then.
Retired now, been re-watching old races, Schumi made alot more mistakes than I remembered. He might actually be baby Schumi, but without a dream team (Todt, Brawn, Byrne) behind him. Plus both intentional crashed into competitors.
Yes, I said that on this forum before. All the greats made plenty of mistakes. It’s just Hamilton who defined this as a new standard in recent years.
Prost also made alot more mistakes than I remembered, more than any "professor" should have. Senna made plenty of mistakes until 90, then was very clean until 94.

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raymondu999
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Re: The curious case of Sebastian Vettel

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NathanOlder wrote:
21 Oct 2019, 17:32
I think If Charles beats Seb in 3 or all of the remaining races. Seb will struggle to recover. If Seb beats Charles in 3 or all of the remaining races, he will be strong and mentally well prepared for 2020.
No I get that. I'm just saying that what you said previously:
NathanOlder wrote:
19 Oct 2019, 11:32
Yeah, I think the remaining races are very important in that they may have a big influence on how 2020 will shape up.
Is kinda like... no sh1t Sherlock lol. Excuse the French. Momentum has always been big in terms of a driver's form and confidence.
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raymondu999
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Re: The curious case of Sebastian Vettel

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ENGINE TUNER wrote:
21 Oct 2019, 18:50
raymondu999 wrote:
12 Oct 2019, 14:21
I hate reviving dormant threads.

But I just stumbled across this (albeit old) article which I dont think anyone has posted yet; and I think is a good assessment of the situation https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/32420 ... s-mistakes
What a load of crock. Vettel apologists are silly. He keeps causing unnecessary accidents and making silly mistakes and they are nobody's fault except his own. Why weren't there as many Maldonado and Grosjean apologists? They are just as fast and just as accident/mistake prone as Vettel. Ferrari gave VET the fastest car in Bahrain, he spins. Fastest car in Japan, jump start. He had absolutely no pressure in Germany last year, Hamilton started 16th or something, vettel puts it in the wall. It's not RBR, or Ferrari or pressure, IT IS VETTEL, he is the problem, always has been.
None of your claims rebut the post in any way though.
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