2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

[ENGINE TUNER]

The conspiracy theorists are hilarious, keep em coming guys, I need more to laugh at. Kubica keeps crashing and then complaining of a lack of parts, interesting that he hasn't put the correlation together yet. Seems that he is neither fast enough or smart enough for F1.

[Scorpaguy]

The conspiracy theorists are hilarious, keep em coming guys, I need more to laugh at. Kubica keeps crashing and then complaining of a lack of parts, interesting that he hasn't put the correlation together yet. Seems that he is neither fast enough or smart enough for F1. He's not doing well at dispelling stereotypes of Polish people, but then again neither are his fans.

Conspiracy theories are hard to prove...and are quite contrary to Ocam's razor. Since day 1 the story has been the same...Kub sets the first, fastest lap...then George gets progressively better By the end of the weekend, Kub is 0.7 secs adrift per lap. Here is where I get lost...

1. 0.7 sec...consistently. Seems that would get one fired quickly and rightly so.
2. Where there is smoke...there is often fire. Sure are a heap many stories re sabotage (none proven).
3. In all circles, Kub is seen as a stand-up guy. If he really is this slow...I think he would quit of his own volition.
4. You are right...Kub seems quite angry these last 2 races. The first half of the season he spouted the company line...not now.
5. Why the hell does Williams cover up Kub's car...no team is wanting to steal design elements of the FW42.
6. 0.7 sec...yet the gap to George at the finish of Japan was comical.

Thus...one could conclude that the sabotage of Kub is abject...or he is simply giving zero "f"s and destroying his reputation.

[ENGINE TUNER]

The conspiracy theorists are hilarious, keep em coming guys, I need more to laugh at. Kubica keeps crashing and then complaining of a lack of parts, interesting that he hasn't put the correlation together yet. Seems that he is neither fast enough or smart enough for F1. He's not doing well at dispelling stereotypes of Polish people, but then again neither are his fans.

Conspiracy theories are hard to prove...and are quite contrary to Ocam's razor. Since day 1 the story has been the same...Kub sets the first, fastest lap...then George gets progressively better By the end of the weekend, Kub is 0.7 secs adrift per lap. Here is where I get lost...

1. 0.7 sec...consistently. Seems that would get one fired quickly and rightly so.
2. Where there is smoke...there is often fire. Sure are a heap many stories re sabotage (none proven).
3. In all circles, Kub is seen as a stand-up guy. If he really is this slow...I think he would quit of his own volition.
4. You are right...Kub seems quite angry these last 2 races. The first half of the season he spouted the company line...not now.
5. Why the hell does Williams cover up Kub's car...no team is wanting to steal design elements of the FW42.
6. 0.7 sec...yet the gap to George at the finish of Japan was comical.

Thus...one could conclude that the sabotage of Kub is abject...or he is simply giving zero "f"s and destroying his reputation.

Kubica crashed in pre season testing and then 3 more times in Australia. The ink was dry after that. He is no longer fit for F1. Good try, time for the next young gun.

[Lotus102]

The conspiracy theorists are hilarious, keep em coming guys, I need more to laugh at. Kubica keeps crashing and then complaining of a lack of parts, interesting that he hasn't put the correlation together yet. Seems that he is neither fast enough or smart enough for F1. He's not doing well at dispelling stereotypes of Polish people, but then again neither are his fans.

Conspiracy theories are hard to prove...and are quite contrary to Ocam's razor. Since day 1 the story has been the same...Kub sets the first, fastest lap...then George gets progressively better By the end of the weekend, Kub is 0.7 secs adrift per lap. Here is where I get lost...

1. 0.7 sec...consistently. Seems that would get one fired quickly and rightly so.
2. Where there is smoke...there is often fire. Sure are a heap many stories re sabotage (none proven).
3. In all circles, Kub is seen as a stand-up guy. If he really is this slow...I think he would quit of his own volition.
4. You are right...Kub seems quite angry these last 2 races. The first half of the season he spouted the company line...not now.
5. Why the hell does Williams cover up Kub's car...no team is wanting to steal design elements of the FW42.
6. 0.7 sec...yet the gap to George at the finish of Japan was comical.

Thus...one could conclude that the sabotage of Kub is abject...or he is simply giving zero "f"s and destroying his reputation.

I don’t recognise this assessment. Sometimes RK is faster in FP1, sometimes in FP2, but most often Russell is ahead in all sessions, and has faster race laps. The average might be 0.7s but the difference in Quali ranges from a few thousandths to near-on a second and a half. There is no consistent pattern as you describe it.

I also don’t recognise the suggestion that he ‘spouted the company line’ at the start of the season. OK, he wasn’t out-and-out hostile before, but from the start of the season he was always questioning decisions and hinting at things he disliked, typically feeding the conspiracy theory that his car was inferior without saying so outright.

I think he really is this slow, but is just unable to admit it, either publicly or to himself, I’m not sure which. Whatever you think of the situation at Williams, it’s worth looking at the cold, hard statistics. There have only been a handful of times where a F1 driver has been outqualified as many times consecutively. In a single season, I can only find two where this was more than 17-0 - both Fernando Alonso, in 2008 when he beat Nelson Piquet Jr 18-0 and last year when he beat Stoffel Vandoorne 21-0. Ayrton Senna beat his teammates 16-0 in both 1986 and 1987, for 32 consecutive outqualifications, which might well be the record. There are a few 16-0s but they are generally great drivers against relatively weak teammates - Prost v Johannson, Schumacher v Patrese, Schumacher v Brundle. The only exception is Jos Verstappen beating Ricardo Rosset 16-0 in 1996. The upshot being that even in cases where the team is avowedly built around one driver, and that driver is one of the greats of the sport, it’s pretty unusual for the No2 driver not to sneak ahead in quali once or twice over that many races. Patrese beat Mansell a couple of times in ‘92, Hill beat Prost in ‘93, even an ageing and disengaged Piquet outqualified Schumacher once in 1991. Russell has had a couple of weekends where he admitted he messed up his lap, and a couple where for various technical reasons he had virtually no running in practice, and every time he still beat Kubica. I don’t think the stats lie over that period.

[netoperek]

As to why there was a plan to stick with the new FW, the answer is simple. It solved season long problem with car #88 for some reason and it is damn worth to further investigate why. That's a everything to win, nothing to loose situation. No brainer decision. Save Robert's typical spec FW, which works on George's car as a bonus spare and promote unusuable part to usable status in situation when You literally had to stop a running car during race to save spares. Tell me how this is not logical, and official version is? Also Robert said it was actually the case. It makes sense if You really want to achieve best possible results. Anything other than that is questionable from the start. I'd really like to see any strong explanation defending Williams decision here, which takes what I wrote here into consideration.
Before Williams realised that they can say anything, regardless if its true and for the most part people will take that for granted, they acknowledged there are differences in equipment and even admitted that they have no clue why those 2 cars work differently. Back then it seemed sad but fair, just the shorter stick for Robert, as they had no resources to build 2 equal cars. For quite long time I really believed there are no bad intentions, just a terrible PR to hide weaknesses but otherwise they did what they could. If I had to choose who to give the more driveable car between the two, I'd choose George as well, as his way less experienced, hence Robert is more likely to handle the crappier car.
I think Robert might have believed it still is the case - that they had no clue how to fix that car and no means to give him a new one. Then now there's a chance to finally come closer to understanding what is wrong and they decide not to take it, while telling him they'll do otherwise, then it is time to take actions. I'd do the same and I don't think it's Robert's reputation that can be lost by speaking up here.

[netoperek]

Kubica crashed in pre season testing and then 3 more times in Australia. The ink was dry after that. He is no longer fit for F1. Good try, time for the next young gun.

What?? In Australia, first Lando Norris has been released in front of Kubica (and got penalty for it) in practice, then he brushed the wall, puncturing the tire (his mistake), then in the race on first lap Gasly hit Robert, taking out the wing, puncturing the tire and damaging rear part of the floor IIRC. Kubica managed to finish the race. He also brought car home in every other race so far, though once prematurely. How is that not fit for F1? How many other drivers do we have with clean slate on the grid? He had few minor mistakes, few spins. Sure. Despite that he's been in the very top driver reliability wise this season. Provide any proof or statistics suggesting otherwise or stop being manipulative.

[Lotus102]

As to why there was a plan to stick with the new FW, the answer is simple. It solved season long problem with car #88 for some reason and it is damn worth to further investigate why. That's a everything to win, nothing to loose situation. No brainer decision. Save Robert's typical spec FW, which works on George's car as a bonus spare and promote unusuable part to usable status in situation when You literally had to stop a running car during race to save spares. Tell me how this is not logical, and official version is? Also Robert said it was actually the case. It makes sense if You really want to achieve best possible results. Anything other than that is questionable from the start. I'd really like to see any strong explanation defending Williams decision here, which takes what I wrote here into consideration.
Before Williams realised that they can say anything, regardless if its true and for the most part people will take that for granted, they acknowledged there are differences in equipment and even admitted that they have no clue why those 2 cars work differently. Back then it seemed sad but fair, just the shorter stick for Robert, as they had no resources to build 2 equal cars. For quite long time I really believed there are no bad intentions, just a terrible PR to hide weaknesses but otherwise they did what they could. If I had to choose who to give the more driveable car between the two, I'd choose George as well, as his way less experienced, hence Robert is more likely to handle the crappier car.
I think Robert might have believed it still is the case - that they had no clue how to fix that car and no means to give him a new one. Then now there's a chance to finally come closer to understanding what is wrong and they decide not to take it, while telling him they'll do otherwise, then it is time to take actions. I'd do the same and I don't think it's Robert's reputation that can be lost by speaking up here.

Sorry, but this is all conspiracist with very little basis in what we actually know. The season long narrative that Kubica has a different car simply cannot be correct as he has had a change of chassis (now two changes of chassis, after binning it in Japan) and replacement of all major components, not to mention the big Silverstone/Hungary bargeboard and floor upgrade and yet the gap to Russell has remained similar. Each time the suspicion has fallen on a particular item it has been changed and no difference resulted. Please tell me what you think is different. (As I see it the only difference is between the suspension, where Kubica appears to have elected to stay with the old suspension). You say Williams has no means to give Kubica a new car - well they have given him a new car, several times over, it just didn’t make any difference. Even when Kubica talks in terms of one car and the other car he could just as easily be referring to ‘sides of the garage’. The new wing might render a bigger difference with Kubica’s driving style than Russell’s, for example (which makes a whole lot more sense to me than the actual cars being so dramatically different). And we only have Kubica’s word for it that the wing didn’t work on ‘the second car’ (ha!)

There were no good reasons for putting the front wing on in quali and the race, and a host of good reasons for not running it. As I suggested above (I thought I was clear but perhaps I need to repeat the point) it was always described as an experimental wing aimed at validation for next year’s car. As such it is far more useful being run at different circuits to gather data. This season is a total bust. What would it have served to have both cars finish last but one of them a bit further up the road? If you think the new wing was worth as much as a whole lap over the race distance, it would have only meant the two Williams finishing in convoy rather than a lap apart. Can it really have been so impressive? Kubica was only 2/10 faster in FP2, and he’s been slightly faster in practice sessions before without it leading to a breakthrough. What was the absolute best case scenario (assuming Kubica hadn’t trashed the only new wing on his out lap)? Anything better than they achieved seems inconceivable to me.

As far as Russell having an ‘easier’ car, this seems naive given the struggles he had with braking and fuel saving. Most of the race he sounded stressed as hell and thought he was liable to crash at any moment. The lad deserves great credit just for bringing it home.

[Scorpaguy]

The conspiracy theorists are hilarious, keep em coming guys, I need more to laugh at. Kubica keeps crashing and then complaining of a lack of parts, interesting that he hasn't put the correlation together yet. Seems that he is neither fast enough or smart enough for F1. He's not doing well at dispelling stereotypes of Polish people, but then again neither are his fans.

Conspiracy theories are hard to prove...and are quite contrary to Ocam's razor. Since day 1 the story has been the same...Kub sets the first, fastest lap...then George gets progressively better By the end of the weekend, Kub is 0.7 secs adrift per lap. Here is where I get lost...

1. 0.7 sec...consistently. Seems that would get one fired quickly and rightly so.
2. Where there is smoke...there is often fire. Sure are a heap many stories re sabotage (none proven).
3. In all circles, Kub is seen as a stand-up guy. If he really is this slow...I think he would quit of his own volition.
4. You are right...Kub seems quite angry these last 2 races. The first half of the season he spouted the company line...not now.
5. Why the hell does Williams cover up Kub's car...no team is wanting to steal design elements of the FW42.
6. 0.7 sec...yet the gap to George at the finish of Japan was comical.

Thus...one could conclude that the sabotage of Kub is abject...or he is simply giving zero "f"s and destroying his reputation.

I don’t recognise this assessment. Sometimes RK is faster in FP1, sometimes in FP2, but most often Russell is ahead in all sessions, and has faster race laps. The average might be 0.7s but the difference in Quali ranges from a few thousandths to near-on a second and a half. There is no consistent pattern as you describe it.

I also don’t recognise the suggestion that he ‘spouted the company line’ at the start of the season. OK, he wasn’t out-and-out hostile before, but from the start of the season he was always questioning decisions and hinting at things he disliked, typically feeding the conspiracy theory that his car was inferior without saying so outright.

I think he really is this slow, but is just unable to admit it, either publicly or to himself, I’m not sure which. Whatever you think of the situation at Williams, it’s worth looking at the cold, hard statistics. There have only been a handful of times where a F1 driver has been outqualified as many times consecutively. In a single season, I can only find two where this was more than 17-0 - both Fernando Alonso, in 2008 when he beat Nelson Piquet Jr 18-0 and last year when he beat Stoffel Vandoorne 21-0. Ayrton Senna beat his teammates 16-0 in both 1986 and 1987, for 32 consecutive outqualifications, which might well be the record. There are a few 16-0s but they are generally great drivers against relatively weak teammates - Prost v Johannson, Schumacher v Patrese, Schumacher v Brundle. The only exception is Jos Verstappen beating Ricardo Rosset 16-0 in 1996. The upshot being that even in cases where the team is avowedly built around one driver, and that driver is one of the greats of the sport, it’s pretty unusual for the No2 driver not to sneak ahead in quali once or twice over that many races. Patrese beat Mansell a couple of times in ‘92, Hill beat Prost in ‘93, even an ageing and disengaged Piquet outqualified Schumacher once in 1991. Russell has had a couple of weekends where he admitted he messed up his lap, and a couple where for various technical reasons he had virtually no running in practice, and every time he still beat Kubica. I don’t think the stats lie over that period.

Lotus102...good comments. Please note I meant the 0.7 to be an average gap from FP1 thru the race...it certainly was not meant as a precise measurement (sorry if it came across as such). Still, I think the figure is a decent approximation across these sessions (but disagreement is what keeps the forums interesting). What we both agree on is his speed (or lack there of). All of the stats you cite is what leaves me flummoxed...I cannot see anyone voluntarily subjecting himself to such (at least RB mercifully pulled the plug on Gasly).

[Lotus102]

Ah, noted re 0.7s, thanks

[PowerandtheGlory]

... I assume the post was edited or moderated. But for god sake's let's leave the "Polish People" out of this... Absolutely unnecessary reference and quite offensive.

[marmer]

Is there actually much proof they changed his chassis or just fixed it only changing what was absolutely destroyed

[Lotus102]

Is there actually much proof they changed his chassis or just fixed it only changing what was absolutely destroyed

Williams spokesperson quoted in media: “We have parts but it’s a chassis change so huge amount of work. It will be tight but they are doing everything they can and I’m confident they can do it."

He also got a new chassis after Baku. Russell switched to Kubica’s old chassis which was the one from pre-season testing, and the one damaged by the drain cover became the spare. So this whole suggestion of Kubica having a different car all season doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me. The chassis’ have to be built to the same spec as they are homologated anyway, although sometimes you can find one does not behave entirely as the others do - usually after a crash, it has to be said. All of the other major components have been replaced or upgraded as the year has gone on, so at this stage, a persistent difference between the different sides of the Williams garage can only come down to the large component behind the steering wheel.

[Lotus102]

Kubica crashed in pre season testing and then 3 more times in Australia. The ink was dry after that. He is no longer fit for F1. Good try, time for the next young gun.

What?? In Australia, first Lando Norris has been released in front of Kubica (and got penalty for it) in practice, then he brushed the wall, puncturing the tire (his mistake), then in the race on first lap Gasly hit Robert, taking out the wing, puncturing the tire and damaging rear part of the floor IIRC. Kubica managed to finish the race. He also brought car home in every other race so far, though once prematurely. How is that not fit for F1? How many other drivers do we have with clean slate on the grid? He had few minor mistakes, few spins. Sure. Despite that he's been in the very top driver reliability wise this season. Provide any proof or statistics suggesting otherwise or stop being manipulative.

In Australia Kubica launched it down the inside and understeered into Gasly, it was 100% his fault. Worth remembering that in France he ran Russell off the track leading to damage to Russell’s front wing. In Russia he crowded Russell into Ricciardo (when he had plenty of room on the outside), again leading to damage to Russell’s car. In Monaco he ran wide, inviting a rather silly move from Giovinazzi, and then shut the door. Maybe 40% his fault. He’s kept it clean mainly by dint of being so far off the back he had no other cars around him, but in traffic it’s not always thus. I admit I worried this year that he was going to be a danger to the drivers around him, but it hasn’t turned out as I feared.

[netoperek]

Kubica crashed in pre season testing and then 3 more times in Australia. The ink was dry after that. He is no longer fit for F1. Good try, time for the next young gun.

What?? In Australia, first Lando Norris has been released in front of Kubica (and got penalty for it) in practice, then he brushed the wall, puncturing the tire (his mistake), then in the race on first lap Gasly hit Robert, taking out the wing, puncturing the tire and damaging rear part of the floor IIRC. Kubica managed to finish the race. He also brought car home in every other race so far, though once prematurely. How is that not fit for F1? How many other drivers do we have with clean slate on the grid? He had few minor mistakes, few spins. Sure. Despite that he's been in the very top driver reliability wise this season. Provide any proof or statistics suggesting otherwise or stop being manipulative.

In Australia Kubica launched it down the inside and understeered into Gasly, it was 100% his fault. Worth remembering that in France he ran Russell off the track leading to damage to Russell’s front wing. In Russia he crowded Russell into Ricciardo (when he had plenty of room on the outside), again leading to damage to Russell’s car. In Monaco he ran wide, inviting a rather silly move from Giovinazzi, and then shut the door. Maybe 40% his fault. He’s kept it clean mainly by dint of being so far off the back he had no other cars around him, but in traffic it’s not always thus. I admit I worried this year that he was going to be a danger to the drivers around him, but it hasn’t turned out as I feared.

Sure, Kubica is such a threat, that only he and Bottas doesn't have any penalty points on him as of now:
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/standings ... lty+points

I tried to find any footage of incident with Gasly but couldn't find any. I found no sources though, suggesting "it was 100% his fault". Literally none. I found though quite a few saying that Gasly tore his FW off, getting into him while trying to avoid Sainz.
Here's France GP, where George damaged FW on the styrofoam:
https://www.formula1.com/en/video/2019/ ... ubica.html
I quite enjoyed that fight. Both drivers had fun and complimented each other as well: https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14434 ... -french-gp

That's Your first two "100% Kubica faults". Is the rest as worth investigating?

[Lotus102]

You can look into it more or not, it’s up to you. To me it was pretty obvious that Kubica was the one principally at fault for the Gasly collision, but it’s the kind of lap one bash that tends to get chalked down as a racing incident. There was a very short clip of it on Youtube at the time, so there is footage out there. As far as France was concerned, it was a good fight, but Russell had his car level and Kubica left him nowhere to go. OK, it was low consequence - he only his a polystyrene bollard and maybe Kubica would not have been so reckless elsewhere, but it was avoidable and nobody else’s fault.

With penalty points, the situation is not as it was until last year. Previously if a driver was judged to have been slightly more at fault in an avoidable collision, that was a penalty, but this year to encourage racing it’s pretty much The Purge: Anarchy out there. There are more penalty points currently on the board for impeding a quali lap than running someone off the track. As I say, Kubica has mainly been safe through running out of company, but I raise these incidents to show that he has not kept his nose 100% clean.

Interesting piece here someone highlighted on Twitter, quoting Kubica talking about the FW which indicates that he knew very well that it was chiefly supporting design work on the FW43. It looks from this as though his later comments were simply troublemaking http://www.williamsgpnews.com/news/how- ... ront-wing/