General Honda F1 Topic

[_cerber1]

https://twitter.com/NAR/status/1189330301220278272

All four auto parts makers have been developing self-driving and other next-generation technology. Hitachi Automotive Systems, for instance, leads in the field of electronic control units. Keihin is known for its power control systems. Nissin Kogyo makes braking systems, and Showa is developing a technology for converting the movement of a steering wheel into electronic signals.
Honda and Hitachi have been collaborating since 2017, when a joint venture for electric vehicle driving systems was set up by Honda and Hitachi Automotive Systems.

McLaren supplies electronic control units for all teams; they won the FIA tender.

[PlatinumZealot]

https://twitter.com/NAR/status/1189330301220278272

All four auto parts makers have been developing self-driving and other next-generation technology. Hitachi Automotive Systems, for instance, leads in the field of electronic control units. Keihin is known for its power control systems. Nissin Kogyo makes braking systems, and Showa is developing a technology for converting the movement of a steering wheel into electronic signals.
Honda and Hitachi have been collaborating since 2017, when a joint venture for electric vehicle driving systems was set up by Honda and Hitachi Automotive Systems.

McLaren supplies electronic control units for all teams; they won the FIA tender.

There are other control units on the car though.

[Wouter]

Preview Austin from Honda and the drivers. https://en.hondaracingf1.com/races/2019 ... -prix.html

[flexcon]

Just thinking to myself here.

It’s a consensus that the Ferrari PU this year is equal if not better all round than the Mercedes Lump.

Considering how much time Honda spent abandoning the standard layout and following suit with the split compressor turbo lay out of merc - the standard PU layout seems to be servicing Ferrari just fine! Makes you wonder was Honda right to chase all the R&D for this layout rather than perfect the basic layout of the Ferrari and Renault engine. ..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sieper]

Split concept allows for more direct airflow. It will be more efficient when we reach the limits.

[GhostF1]

Just thinking to myself here.

It’s a consensus that the Ferrari PU this year is equal if not better all round than the Mercedes Lump.

Considering how much time Honda spent abandoning the standard layout and following suit with the split compressor turbo lay out of merc - the standard PU layout seems to be servicing Ferrari just fine! Makes you wonder was Honda right to chase all the R&D for this layout rather than perfect the basic layout of the Ferrari and Renault engine. ..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

As Sieper says. It also allows for a much more compact arrangement which has benefits everywhere. It doesn't mean the turbo hanging off the back is a bad layout, but as we edge closer to finding the limits of performance and packaging, id say the Merc/Honda layout would be the one to have.

[flexcon]

Just thinking to myself here.

It’s a consensus that the Ferrari PU this year is equal if not better all round than the Mercedes Lump.

Considering how much time Honda spent abandoning the standard layout and following suit with the split compressor turbo lay out of merc - the standard PU layout seems to be servicing Ferrari just fine! Makes you wonder was Honda right to chase all the R&D for this layout rather than perfect the basic layout of the Ferrari and Renault engine. ..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

As Sieper says. It also allows for a much more compact arrangement which has benefits everywhere. It doesn't mean the turbo hanging off the back is a bad layout, but as we edge closer to finding the limits of performance and packaging, id say the Merc/Honda layout would be the one to have.

So in other words are we talking mainly about weight of the piping going to the back where the compressor is vs, weight of having MGU-H shaft in the VEE and compressor at the front with less piping?

The reason I ask is, just based on the amount of PAIN honda had with this full split concept I wonder was the effort worth it.

[ispano6]

It has been worth it, for sure. They've surpassed Renault and convinced Red Bull to use Honda power. We got our first win in the hybrid era thanks to HondaJet, Max and Red Bull. Imagine if we were stuck only in the STR or MCL chassis. The haters here would be all over Honda bashing the concept. Next year our PU will be even better and Red Bull and Alpha Tauri should be even more competitive.

[MMMMMMMM]

Indeed, 1 win in 2019 vs. 4 wins the previous year for RBR.
Let's hope they take it forward next year, but for this year, going with Honda was a step back.

[foneFanatiq]

This is very untrue. It’s like comparing apples to oranges. You have to remember the new regulations for this year as well. The simpler front wing RBR struggled for the first part of the season from that alone. And Mercedes got it right from the beginning. So counting the number of race wins does not show the entire picture of PU performance.

Indeed, 1 win in 2019 vs. 4 wins the previous year for RBR.
Let's hope they take it forward next year, but for this year, going with Honda was a step back.

[Bill]

Rbr has 2 wins were do you get 1.in Austin last Redbull qualified 1.1 seconds away from pole these year 0.067 seconds. That's huge improvement Rbr can now go into races expecting to be on pole. They could have won Mexico and Hungary. Brazil with high altitude looks to be Rbr next hunting ground

[Thunder18]

Exactly, plus nobody considered Ferrari's gain which came out of literally nowhere and probably cost them a Singapore win too. F1 doesn't stand still, it's a constant development, if you peak you'll be caught because once you think you've reached that peak someone will find away to leap frog you.

Redbull expected 4 wins on tracks they were the best at, Merc put it to them in Monaco and Ferrari dazzled everyone in Singapore.

[Thunder18]

Actually if Mexico went as planned and Max didn't also have damage in Japan and USA, they could've had six or more wins this season as Austria and Germany weren't expected.

[GhostF1]

Just thinking to myself here.

It’s a consensus that the Ferrari PU this year is equal if not better all round than the Mercedes Lump.

Considering how much time Honda spent abandoning the standard layout and following suit with the split compressor turbo lay out of merc - the standard PU layout seems to be servicing Ferrari just fine! Makes you wonder was Honda right to chase all the R&D for this layout rather than perfect the basic layout of the Ferrari and Renault engine. ..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

As Sieper says. It also allows for a much more compact arrangement which has benefits everywhere. It doesn't mean the turbo hanging off the back is a bad layout, but as we edge closer to finding the limits of performance and packaging, id say the Merc/Honda layout would be the one to have.

So in other words are we talking mainly about weight of the piping going to the back where the compressor is vs, weight of having MGU-H shaft in the VEE and compressor at the front with less piping?

The reason I ask is, just based on the amount of PAIN honda had with this full split concept I wonder was the effort worth it.

I'm sure we aren't as aware as the manufacturers of the full range of benefits the layout affords, but there is a lot you can assume from basic principles. Splitting the turbine and compressor brings massive cooling advantages, keeping the hot side away from the cold side. Utilising otherwise empty space in the V by putting the MGU-H there brings packaging advantages. Ferrari/Renault layout forces the turbo out the back, at least on the Renault design, and the turbo intrudes into the gearbox space. Having them split could also potentially allow them to be sized larger with less impact on the overall PU dimensions as well.
The one "advantage" I have seen spoken about the Ferrari/Renault layout, is it allows the PU to be mounted further forward, closer to the driver as the compressor intake is at the back of the PU. The Merc/Honda layout requires the PU to be mounted further rearwards to allow space for the compressor intake which is at the front. Whether that is an advantage or not would require knowledge of the entire car's build philosophy.

The fact the Merc and Honda are the most compact units on the grid has to count for something and they look significantly neater as well.

[Sieper]

In fact, this year Mercedes even has two small bulges in the rear body work despite of only housing the exhaust part of he turbo there. So the packaging is minimal. For sure this must provide aero gains. Also the intake side can be larger without aero penalty as behind the back of the driver the car is wide anyway.