Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

[flexcon]

Just thinking to myself here.

It’s a consensus that the Ferrari PU this year is equal if not better all round than the Mercedes Lump.

Considering how much time Honda spent abandoning the standard layout and following suit with the split compressor turbo lay out of merc - the standard PU layout seems to be servicing Ferrari just fine! Makes you wonder was Honda right to chase all the R&D for this layout rather than perfect the basic layout of the Ferrari and Renault engine.


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[wuzak]

Just thinking to myself here.

It’s a consensus that the Ferrari PU this year is equal if not better all round than the Mercedes Lump.

Considering how much time Honda spent abandoning the standard layout and following suit with the split compressor turbo lay out of merc - the standard PU layout seems to be servicing Ferrari just fine! Makes you wonder was Honda right to chase all the R&D for this layout rather than perfect the basic layout of the Ferrari and Renault engine.


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Honda had a split turbo from the start, though the compressor was in the vee rather than in front like the Mercedes.

[IvailoStefanovBG]

Actually I think we have to wait for the last two races and then we can tell if Ferrari were cheating. But for me yesterday`s results were very close to what we saw just before summer break - in Hungary - and if Leclerc was driving with used spec 2 than real power advantage for Ferrari came with Spec 3 - which is even more suspicious, because power gains are too big for just a mid season engine evolution...

[turbof1]

Guys,

A reminder this is a technical topic. Discussions about potential cheating has to include points being made about the actual hardware that is been cheated on. Please do not turn this into a moral discussion.

[trinidefender]

Just thinking to myself here.

It’s a consensus that the Ferrari PU this year is equal if not better all round than the Mercedes Lump.

Considering how much time Honda spent abandoning the standard layout and following suit with the split compressor turbo lay out of merc - the standard PU layout seems to be servicing Ferrari just fine! Makes you wonder was Honda right to chase all the R&D for this layout rather than perfect the basic layout of the Ferrari and Renault engine.


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The split turbo was never about PU performance gains, it was always about packaging gains for the rest of the car.

Does it provide packaging gains? Probably. Would Ferrari implement it? Only if they think the money and time can't be better spent finding laptime and offsetting potential reliability problems encountered in 1st generation split turbo concept. That's a big ask so my guess is no, they will spend the money/time/effort/resources on other parts of the car that they think will gain them more lap time.

A large part of F1 is about resource management. That's more what the big names you hear about do, example binotto, rather than the engineering themselves.

[toraabe]

One thing I don't understand is how Ferrari would suddenly stop using the system (if indeed they have a system).

Once a clarification has been asked for does that mean the FIA check this on every car?

Surely there would have to be some direct protest or something towards Ferrari and a simple clarification does not warrant a knee jerk?

It means if you get caught with the system after the Directive is issued, you're disqualified.

So the FIA could have already known about it, but won't act until another team asks for clarification? (because there was currently no specific rule against it)

If that is the case. all contructor points shall be deleted

[Xwang]

One thing I don't understand is how Ferrari would suddenly stop using the system (if indeed they have a system).

Once a clarification has been asked for does that mean the FIA check this on every car?

Surely there would have to be some direct protest or something towards Ferrari and a simple clarification does not warrant a knee jerk?

It means if you get caught with the system after the Directive is issued, you're disqualified.

So the FIA could have already known about it, but won't act until another team asks for clarification? (because there was currently no specific rule against it)

As far as I know (namely what press and F1 sites have reported) FIA has always stated that the Ferrari power unit is legal.
The TD seems stating again something already clearly stated in the rules (since Red Bull asked if they can implement a system that circumvent the flow meter and FIA answered NO), so even before the TD, FIA could already have disqualified Ferrari if a similar device was present but it seems it is not the case.

[Tzk]

During qualifying Ferrari still had the best performance on the straights. Although they added much more downforce than usual. Bumpy track is probably the main reason for the terrible form in Austin

My guess is that Ferrari ran more DF (and thus drag) than before. They gained speed in corners and lost speed on the straights. They still had the edge in qualy, but it was a lot less topspeed wise.

I still feel people think that the speed advantage is only engine dependant, but i'd rather say it's the combination of a engine qualy mode and an aero efficient car with less peak-DF than the competitors (especially merc). Remember that drag increases exponentially with speed. A few extra hp won't get you 20kph in qualy, but less drag will...

[Polite]

It means if you get caught with the system after the Directive is issued, you're disqualified.

So the FIA could have already known about it, but won't act until another team asks for clarification? (because there was currently no specific rule against it)

As far as I know (namely what press and F1 sites have reported) FIA has always stated that the Ferrari power unit is legal.
The TD seems stating again something already clearly stated in the rules (since Red Bull asked if they can implement a system that circumvent the flow meter and FIA answered NO), so even before the TD, FIA could already have disqualified Ferrari if a similar device was present but it seems it is not the case.

thank you

next two races will silence the 33..
the flow meter is monitored every time and every race for all the cars by the FIA.

[turbof1]

I think at this moment there are a lot of uncertainties:

-First of all, what did the questions and clarifications actually say? We do know vaguely it is about circumventions of the fuel flow meter, but if I recall correctly there were 3 questions. I don't expect this to be public frankly, which is extremely frustrating, but if it is anybody knows, please post it.

-Second, we do not how or even if this actually partains to Ferrari. Yes, let us not mince words: Red Bull did this in the hope of cutting off a suspected advantage of Ferrari. However, it is a question on its own if they either had a well informed source pointing at something, or if they just made a rough assumption Ferrari was somehow burning more fuel.

-Third, even if Ferrari was directly affected by the clarification, then it still has to be determined if Ferrari in an illegal way, or if they were running in a grey zone and could have been technically legal up to that point.

There is a case to be made that ferrari looked to be down on horsepower right after the clarification, that can be causality. However, it might just as well be coincidence, in which case the clarifications did not matter and were not relevant to Ferrari (or indeed this topic). There are some people saying Ferrari was running more downforce, which can be an alternative explanation. I think if somebody somehow could get their hands on acceleration numbers, that that might give us insight if that explanation has merit.

I'd say you cannot rule either option -coincidence or causality- out. For now.

[Big Tea]

The one thing I do not understand here is why RBR "went public" instead of using it themselves?

[TAG]

Fact-Ferrari dropped some top end speed this weekend.

Data on Racefans is pretty conclusive as Ferrari was the only team down on their average top speed deficit for the year.

Very interesting read.

[loner]

The one thing I do not understand here is why RBR "went public" instead of using it themselves?

i thought the same but perhaps they feard it will be discovered so why the pain to do it anyway

[toraabe]

Let's see in Interlagos..

[izzy]

for me it was most likely a combination of a tricky setup they didn't quite nail, drag with constantly looking for a bit more downforce this year, still having some legal battery magic for acceleration, and losing that bit of accidental electrical interference from some junior person carelessly running wires under the fuel tank by the sensor . Complex in other words, not one thing

Red Bull did the right thing and FIA handled it with their usual discretion: DQ for Renault, quiet word for you know who . But now it's all level again and good, looking forward to the Hill in Brazil and who goes up it how fast