2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

[KelsO]

if this is true can this explain the unusual telemetry curve with sharp drops (at the moment of measuring the instantaneous fuel consumption)? I think we will get an answer in the remaining Grand Prix.


The problem is not even the alleged manipulation of fuel consumption. The problem is that if this is true, then the FIA ​​knew about it, but did not take any steps ....

[Ground Effect]

RED BULL HONDA USING MERCEDES INTEL?

According to Red Bull consultant Helmut Marko (76) his team used research largely collected by Mercedes. Dr. Marko to F1-Insider.com: “Mercedes had researched this area, but we had the courage to hand in an official request to the FIA.”

https://f1-insider.com/en/formula1/red- ... des-intel/

That sounds fishy, how exactly would RBR get Mercedes research data!

Is it possible that Red Bull formally lodged to prevent Mercedes from implementing it, which would suggest that though Honda and Red Bull understand the philosophy, they are not as close as Mercedes in making it operational?

[TimW]

Well, to be fair, he only ever said it in dutch for a local station and immediately post race when heartbeats were still high in the penn. later, at sky etc he used much more carefull words. Jos Verstappen already said (twice) in an Monday night ziggo "pep-talk" (weekly sports talk show) that after every race face times with either Jos or Max that MAx would not be using those words again.

I think he was just venting frustration, not so much trying to lash out at Ferrari. It happened but it was not a full blown attack, it was in dutch for local audience.

Accusing someone of cheating doesn't turn harmless because you do it in another language. Being frustrated isn't an excuse either.

Max didn't do himself a favor so, if any, it's gonna be him who'll get the most damage out of this story. If there was any chance for him to go to Ferrari anytime in future, this chance can be buried now.

The language and associated culture you say something in does make a difference. Dutch are much more direct and blunt, for us the way he said it is more tonque in cheek than a harsh accusation.

Similar a lot (not all) of Max 'arrogance' is percieved differently here, we see it being open and honest. Just tell it like it is.

[Capharol]

While F1's chiefs have said they believe that wind tunnel and CFD restrictions will limit scope for spending in 2020, Red Bull boss Christian Horner thinks there are still enough areas of freedom to mean that it is worth investing more.

"You have an unrestricted and uncontrolled amount of money that you can spend on research and development across other areas," said Horner. "For me, I stand by what I said previously.

"It would have been better to have introduced the cap first and then the regulations a year down the line, because then the budget cap would have constrained the amount of spend.

"Next year looks to be our most expensive ever year in F1."
Horner said Red Bull had already got personnel devoted to working on the 2021 regulations, and faced the prospect of needing two separate groups focusing on cars next year.

"Now the 2021 regulations are clear, we have an advanced team starting to investigate those regulations," he said.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/red- ... 0/4594278/

[langedweil]

Serously ?
Ramifications would be too big; even Ferarri understands that in a courtcase this would get ugly and expose a lot more than they would like from IP point of view. Even if they'd win they'd loose a lot more ...

Ferrai would't loose any IP in a Defamation/slander lawsuit. It's a civil trial, and the defendant (Max/RBR) would have to prove Max's statements are correct with what was publicly known at the time of the comments. The defendants can't get the courts to help/allow them to dig for proof, they have to already have it.

As it stands today, no one has any proof that Ferrari did anything wrong, if they did the entire world would know by now. Hence the reason we see stuff like the article i linked to talking about Binotto/Ferrari saying they are prepared for legal action. The only type of legal action they could take is a Defamation/slander lawsuit.

Its a weird mechanism these days that you're supposed to swallow your words before you even think of them.

Nah, whats weird is that people think they can say whatever they want and just get away with it. IMO,this is probably because a lot of younger people have grown up with the internet, and are use to being able to say whatever they want because the internet provides them a great deal of anonymity.

Well, let's just agree to disagree on both points, saves time & wasting this topic.

[diffuser]

I think what Max really needs to get his head around is that he does not have to finish first in every race.
Is this a spillover from the generation raised on computer games? win and look good at all costs?
There is no 'hit F3 for restart' in real life and the only stats displayed that really,really matter are those for total at the season end, and to get those up it is imperative to complete as many races as possible without indecent, as the planned strategy goes out the window once you have to pit for new nose.

I have not looked at the actual possible results had he done clean races all year, but I think he could easily be clear 3 rd probably chasing second. (NB. clean as in not involved in fracas, not saying 'dirty driving')

I don't think that is valid criticism because Verstappen has maximized every opportunity given to him this season, more so than either of his team mates. The only thing left to fight for is beating Ferrari, as Mercedes already wrapped up both chips. He has a very real chance of beating both Ferrari drivers, and Verstappen wouldn't be this close if he hadn't just gotten on with the job.

I don't think Max maxed Mex . I Crack myself up.

His team mates are not at a bar worthy of him. Yet Albon has more points since his arrival to RBR. How about that, being out scored by a first yearer! Clearly Max is under performing. You're right they probably would not have surpassed Ferrari but they would have been a hell of alot closer.

[loner]

RED BULL HONDA USING MERCEDES INTEL?

According to Red Bull consultant Helmut Marko (76) his team used research largely collected by Mercedes. Dr. Marko to F1-Insider.com: “Mercedes had researched this area, but we had the courage to hand in an official request to the FIA.”

https://f1-insider.com/en/formula1/red- ... des-intel/

i remember this tweet

I wrote together with
@GiulyDuchessa
is
@spontonc
that Mercedes has recently turned on its PU 2020 prototype, which according to our info is the biggest upgrade since 2014. In preparation for the 2021 freeze on which Mercedes has already given its approval?

https://twitter.com/SmilexTech/status/1 ... 12736?s=19

seems this is the only way to get such huge jump in power if we trust this tweet? why would Mercs share the info with RBR unless they are not so sure about its legality, were Ferrari impatient to try it in 2019 without legal clarification
if the claims to be true.
Ferrari don't get their advantage from outer space after all its engineering and iam quite sure Mercs and Honda have the facilities and tech just like Ferrari.

[bigblue]

if this is true can this explain the unusual telemetry curve with sharp drops (at the moment of measuring the instantaneous fuel consumption)? I think we will get an answer in the remaining Grand Prix.

So, you're suggesting that we can see individual points when the fuel consumption is measured, in a whole lap telemetry curve showing car speed, rendered as a 1280 × 583 pixel jpg, and at all these points there's a drop in consumption ?

[KelsO]

if this is true can this explain the unusual telemetry curve with sharp drops (at the moment of measuring the instantaneous fuel consumption)? I think we will get an answer in the remaining Grand Prix.

So, you're suggesting that we can see individual points when the fuel consumption is measured, in a whole lap telemetry curve showing car speed, rendered as a 1280 × 583 pixel jpg, and at all these points there's a drop in consumption ?

This is the maximum resolution that is. the graph clearly shows sharp drops in the curve line, there does not need a high resolution. This may also be a feature of the PU. But why did Mercedes and Red Bull work in the direction of measuring instantaneous fuel consumption? Maybe they were confused by the sharp drops in telemetry, and then by a sharp increase?

[Hino]

Nutshell explanation of the technical directive on fuel flow.

[LM10]

Nutshell explanation of the technical directive on the fuel flow.

https://streamable.com/e662j

Fixed it for you.

Nonetheless, interesting video.

[Hino]

Nutshell explanation of the technical directive on the fuel flow.

https://streamable.com/e662j

Fixed it for you.

Nonetheless, interesting video.

Thanks. I should've written that a bit better.

[HPD]

After the Japan GP there were again meetings about the future of the manufacturer. "Honda has not decided yet," reveals Red Bull's motorsport consultant dr. Helmut Marko in conversation with Motorsport-Magazin.com.

"An engine is helpful in the Formula 1 car, no question," jokes Marko. An allusion to the past, when Red Bull stood there without an engine. Once again, you do not want to go begging the competition.

"I think the decision should be made for the race in Abu Dhabi," says Marko. "The rules are on the table and now you can calculate how much engine development will be cheaper, there will be restrictions on dyno time and different materials," says Marko. Lower costs should make the Formula One whereabouts palatable to the Japanese.
https://www.motorsport-magazin.com/form ... scheidung/

For me this is the most important right now.

[Wouter]

Another article on AMuS: https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... a-weltrat/

Red Bull und Mercedes bleiben dabei

Red Bull-Motorsportchef Helmut Marko bestätigte auf Anfrage, dass der Salzburger Getränkekonzern der Formel 1 treu bleiben werde, vorausgesetzt Honda setzt sein Engagement fort.
Man sei sich mit dem japanischen Motorenpartner im Prinzip einig, aber eine endgültige Entscheidung aus Tokio
wird erst zum Saisonfinale in Abu Dhabi erwartet.

Red Bull and Mercedes will stay (in F1).

Red Bull motorsport director Helmut Marko confirmed on request that the Salzburg beverage company will remain true to Formula 1, provided Honda continues its commitment.
In principle, one (RB) agrees with the Japanese engine partner, but a final decision from Tokyo
is expected only for the season finale in Abu Dhabi.

[Wouter]

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