Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

[SiLo]

Red Bull had declared in Brazil that they would not submit a protest against Ferrari. No matter what happens. That was now a matter for Mercedes. "They know better than we do anyway," mocked sport boss Helmut Marko.

and

A Ferrari, a Ferrari customer team and a car from a non-Ferrari team.

Is the non-Ferrari team a Mercedes team (or even Mercedes themselves)? Is that what Marko was hinting at?

Or is the non-Ferrari team being used as a control to see where the differences lay?

If there is naughtiness going on in the Red and Silver teams, Red Bull and Max might both end up being champions this year after all...

I think the Mercedes reference is because Mercedes know what Ferrari are doing and are trying to figure out how they can implement it too.

[LM10]

Red Bull had declared in Brazil that they would not submit a protest against Ferrari. No matter what happens. That was now a matter for Mercedes. "They know better than we do anyway," mocked sport boss Helmut Marko.

and

A Ferrari, a Ferrari customer team and a car from a non-Ferrari team.

Is the non-Ferrari team a Mercedes team (or even Mercedes themselves)? Is that what Marko was hinting at?

Or is the non-Ferrari team being used as a control to see where the differences lay?

If there is naughtiness going on in the Red and Silver teams, Red Bull and Max might both end up being champions this year after all...

It never looked like something naughty was going on with the Mercedes PU this season. If any, the Honda seems to be suspiciously powerful now. By asking the FIA for several clarifications the focus is being taken on that particular team and off themselves.
What I find interesting is that the Honda is at least on par with Mercedes now and no one raises en eyebrow. At the beginning of the season Redbull was behind Mercedes on the straights even though they had less downforce and drag. Now, with much more downforce, they’re faster than the Mercedes.

[saviour stivala]

I thought that the FIA needed an official protest to start detailed investigations?

The FIA haven’t and could not have started any detailed investigation because there was/is no official detailed protest yet. The FIA could only answer to an inquiry with a clarification as regards to an inquiry.

[Bill]

The general consensus at the beginning of the year was that all pu manufacturers has converged

[RZS10]

Just a wild guess, but could it be possible that Mercedes pressured the FIA to do this by providing enough evidence and data to cause strong suspicion?

This isn't unprecedented at all since it's almost the same sequence of events as with the ERS where the FIA ended up doing their own investigation and had Ferrari add sensors and modify their software because whatever info Mercedes provided them with was probably believable enough (since it came from a former Ferrari engine guy) to investigate in the first place ...

[dans79]

That is why FIA commissioners in Brazil have apparently confiscated parts of the petrol system for three cars. A Ferrari, a Ferrari customer team and a car from a non-Ferrari team. So you can make comparisons.

FIA wants clarification

The disassembled parts were fuel lines located between the flow sensor and the engine. In this area, the request submitted by Red Bull suspected cheating, with the result that more fuel was injected than allowed by the regulations.

Would these lines be considered one of the standardized items the PU manufacture must supply to its customers? If so, do we know what the penalty would be if any if they are different?

[El Scorchio]

Red Bull had declared in Brazil that they would not submit a protest against Ferrari. No matter what happens. That was now a matter for Mercedes. "They know better than we do anyway," mocked sport boss Helmut Marko.

and

A Ferrari, a Ferrari customer team and a car from a non-Ferrari team.

Is the non-Ferrari team a Mercedes team (or even Mercedes themselves)? Is that what Marko was hinting at?

Or is the non-Ferrari team being used as a control to see where the differences lay?

If there is naughtiness going on in the Red and Silver teams, Red Bull and Max might both end up being champions this year after all...

It never looked like something naughty was going on with the Mercedes PU this season. If any, the Honda seems to be suspiciously powerful now. By asking the FIA for several clarifications the focus is being taken on that particular team and off themselves.
What I find interesting is that the Honda is at least on par with Mercedes now and no one raises en eyebrow. At the beginning of the season Redbull was behind Mercedes on the straights even though they had less downforce and drag. Now, with much more downforce, they’re faster than the Mercedes.

While I don't want to stray off topic as this is a Ferrari PU thread, I do have slightly similar thoughts about RBR/Honda and their performance. I know certain tracks traditionally suit them at the end of the season, but they certainly appear to have made substantial strides during the season (along with Ferrari) relative to Mercedes. Could be that Mercedes are being cautious with settings, or had switched development focus earlier than the other teams given the championship standings, but they are very much 'also rans'- particularly on Saturdays from Germany onward and the performance of their customer teams is pretty woeful.

So I'm supposing it's Honda (or maybe Renault) power unit parts that's been nabbed along with the Ferrari ones? Why can't they say which teams it is, if they can mention one is from an SF90?

[aran.vtec]

Red Bull had declared in Brazil that they would not submit a protest against Ferrari. No matter what happens. That was now a matter for Mercedes. "They know better than we do anyway," mocked sport boss Helmut Marko.

and

A Ferrari, a Ferrari customer team and a car from a non-Ferrari team.

Is the non-Ferrari team a Mercedes team (or even Mercedes themselves)? Is that what Marko was hinting at?

Or is the non-Ferrari team being used as a control to see where the differences lay?

If there is naughtiness going on in the Red and Silver teams, Red Bull and Max might both end up being champions this year after all...

It never looked like something naughty was going on with the Mercedes PU this season. If any, the Honda seems to be suspiciously powerful now. By asking the FIA for several clarifications the focus is being taken on that particular team and off themselves.
What I find interesting is that the Honda is at least on par with Mercedes now and no one raises en eyebrow. At the beginning of the season Redbull was behind Mercedes on the straights even though they had less downforce and drag. Now, with much more downforce, they’re faster than the Mercedes.

Honda have also had more upgrades this season each engine change has been an upgrade, Also Honda's current engine has allot less mileage than Merc which i would assume would be a factor.

[djones]

I'm not so sure Mercedes can be used as a benchmark towards the back of the season. To me, it looked like once they had some engine failures (was it Spa??) the engines all got turned down from then on.

Total guess but I think Honda has been making big improvements, Mercedes have been de-tuning and Ferrari have been improving a lot too. I have no proof of this, it's just what I conclude as a casual observer.

On the subject of the seized parts, there is no way we will hear the results of this investigation if there is found to be cheating, it would look too bad on the sport. It would be a stern warning behind closed doors.

[saviour stivala]

That is why FIA commissioners in Brazil have apparently confiscated parts of the petrol system for three cars. A Ferrari, a Ferrari customer team and a car from a non-Ferrari team. So you can make comparisons.

FIA wants clarification

The disassembled parts were fuel lines located between the flow sensor and the engine. In this area, the request submitted by Red Bull suspected cheating, with the result that more fuel was injected than allowed by the regulations.

Would these lines be considered one of the standardized items the PU manufacture must supply to its customers? If so, do we know what the penalty would be if any if they are different?

These so called 'disassembled fuel part' (fuel lines) are parts that have been approved for use by the FIA.

[LM10]

If everything on the Ferrari turns out to be perfectly ok and other PU manufacturers suddenly come up with the exact same system next season, it will cast a big shadow on this detailed investigation which takes place right now.

[Bill]

That's pie in the sky the clarification was issued and it explicitly state whatever others assume Ferrari is doing is illegal.

[saviour stivala]

If everything on the Ferrari turns out to be perfectly ok and other PU manufacturers suddenly come up with the exact same system next season, it will cast a big shadow on this detailed investigation which takes place right now.

What detailed investigation is taking place right now?

[saviour stivala]

That is why FIA commissioners in Brazil have apparently confiscated parts of the petrol system for three cars. A Ferrari, a Ferrari customer team and a car from a non-Ferrari team. So you can make comparisons.

FIA wants clarification

The disassembled parts were fuel lines located between the flow sensor and the engine. In this area, the request submitted by Red Bull suspected cheating, with the result that more fuel was injected than allowed by the regulations.

Would these lines be considered one of the standardized items the PU manufacture must supply to its customers? If so, do we know what the penalty would be if any if they are different?

Fuel line/located between fuel flow sensor and engine (connecting fuel flow sensor outlet and engine high pressure fuel pump inlet). although a fuel system item that must be approved by the FIA, is not part of the engine supplied hardware.

[LM10]

If everything on the Ferrari turns out to be perfectly ok and other PU manufacturers suddenly come up with the exact same system next season, it will cast a big shadow on this detailed investigation which takes place right now.

What detailed investigation is taking place right now?

You've already written it yourself in your last post. Parts of the fuel lines between the fuel flow sensor and the engine were disassembled and will be investigated in FIA's labs in the next days.