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Vettel is getting a hammering of late. He showed at a young age he's a very talented driver, getting pole and the win in 08 was a very special moment for F1.
He was one hell of a driver, but the rest of the field kept improving and he didn't. Now he's passed left and right by the young guard. What both Ricciardo and Leclerc did is quite amazing. Coming into a new team as a junior and directly challenging the lead driver.
I think Vettel is a very nice guy, probably good for a laugh etc etc, but he also lacks self reflection and that hurts him in his lack of improvement. To stop making a certain mistake, you first have to own your mistake. In his mind it probably is still Verstappens fault that they hit each other in Singapore or Webber's fault in Turkey. Look at Hamilton, he makes a mistake and owns it. This means in his mind he will be more aware not to make the same mistake again. Vettel will cut across track again whenever he feels like it.
If you look at it like that you would say he's in fact deteriorated. He's still as keen as ever IMO so what's the reason for it? Seb isn't stupid, what he says to the press and what he really believes are different things altogether. It may just be something as simple as him not gelling with the car. He's not doing bad against Leclerc when all is said and done, he's been just as fast as him recently.
The 4x WDC has been somewhat off-colour recently. What do we think the reasons are? He made some errors in his early years in F1, but nothing like the errors he's made in the last 18 months. Are we simply looking at a driver reaching the end of his career in F1? I know he's denied it various times, but surely if the form doesn't improve, retirement has to be on the cards? Can we seriously expect him to spend a whole year playing second fiddle to Leclerc in 2020?
The story of Vettel is simple: It is a rather good driver, that should have been a solid guy of the midfield, like a Perez, a Hulkenberg.
But he manage to be at the right time right place at Red Bull and win 4 titles on an incredibly dominant car.
Luckily for him, his team mate was not really a killer, I like Webber, but never was a top driver.
Then RIC beat him, then he got a end of carreer RAI in front of him (the same RAI that was absolutely destroyed by ALO) and now that again there is a good driver in front of him it is difficult.
He simply overdrive to try to be better than he really his, he can't see the truth of how lucky he was with the 4 WDC
And it could have been worse, if you put Hamilton, Verstappen or Alonso in the same car.
Anyway, I think 2020 will be his last year in F1
Pretty much how I see it. Maybe at the level of above the midfield but below the top guys.
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King George has arrived.
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100% right. spot on. The team should guide and educate them to understand there own issues else Next Vettel would be Max but without single WCC. RB not training their driver well.
Seb is still faster in the race pace than Leclerc the whole season people who deny it are being silly (Sebs tyre management is better), Leclerc a little bit faster in qualy. But both made a lot of mistakes. Leclerc Baku, Germany, Japan, and some more, Seb Bahrain, Silverstone, maybe Brasil. We cant deny that Seb had many more issues, couldnt finish Sochi, Austin, so in general on points Seb would have been ahead without this. Seb still has got the speed, but is more clumsy as before, Leclerc is not too good ether, I saw many cases of playing dirty in the races with other drivers, moving under braking and soo on.
But the Brasil accident was 50-50% (racing accident with slightest of touches), both could avoid it. Leclerc was as guilty as Seb for giving his teammate nearly no room on the right, while having a ton of space on the left. Seb was already ahead, and just moved a little bit to the left, as this is a normal racing line, because the next corner goes left. See Verstappen pole lap, he takes the same line! As they are teammates, they should give each other more space in general. Hope this is the first and the last time that this happened.
Thank god the season is over, Ferrari are not good in management, the car isnt good enough, Ferrari reliability isnt good enough, and both drivers made sometimes terrible mistakes, it is what it is. We can blame and hate all we want, bring on 2020. And I think Seb will be his old self again, give him a good car with rear downforce and he will deliver. I saw a good old Seb from Singapore onwards this season, would have 1 2 2 2 3 results without his engine and chassis issues, which is good. He is getting his pace back, being slightly faster that his teammate also in qualy. I still have hope for him and will always be for him in bad or good days. This is what true fans are, we dont go away when the driver has a bad day. There is always a light at the end of tunnel.
All we can say now, Ferrari have quick, but mistake prone drivers. But its better than being slow and dont go for the gap as Bottas!
Seb has 4 world titles and more that 50 wins, he is still a good driver, but not as good as before. Age comes quickly, and kids change you. He is still a top-tier driver on raw pace, while on his day.
It is fascinating to see the various logical contortions people go through. The implicit (and often explicit) double-standards, the inconsistencies, the cherry-picking, the religious-like faith applied.
The whole psychology of sport 'ultra' fans is mesmerising (at least, it is for me) and the parallels you can draw to thinking in every other aspect of life are illuminating.
I think F1 is particularly good for it as there are so few instances and so many camera angles. I don't think I'll ever forget the reaction to the Vettel/Hamilton incident in Baku. A clearer penalty inflicted by the driver on themselves I struggle to think of and yet there were vociferous defenders of Vettel arguing with total belief that it wasn't a penalty. There are still people who think Verstappen did nothing wrong (despite his own admission of guilt) in Mexico qualifying and his penalty was purely a conspiracy by Stewards who are always out to get him. (Inevitably, every driver will see similarly one-eyed support).
It's like every team, driver and even engine supplier has a "defence squad", a small number of individuals, some more obsessive than others, who will make ridiculous statements which are easily disproven or will repeatedly post the same stuff over and over and as the cherry on top, claim that factual statements others make are 'false'.
Speaking of which - no, moving left because a left hander is coming up is not a normal racing line ... lmao
Verstappen is staying nigh parallel to the white line and eventually starts moving closer and closer to it approaching the corner ...
As others have pointed out, the 'you're the dominant driver as soon as you're a bit ahead'' thing Rosberg said ... insane.
Try doing that in any online lobby of a racing sim, it's just not how it works, is it?
But the Brasil accident was 50-50% (racing accident with slightest of touches), both could avoid it. Leclerc was as guilty as Seb for giving his teammate nearly no room on the right, while having a ton of space on the left.
really?
My grandma could fit her 78 Cadillac Sedan De Ville in this gap!
This is was 100% Vettel face plant. That Leclerc could have avoided it had he wanted to, but he didn have to, he held his line and this is something Vettel has done dozens of times in his career. Hence the now infamous quote Vettel has forever hung around his neck.
"I think sometimes Seb forgets that where the back of his helmet is is not where the back of his car is! -MW
But the Brasil accident was 50-50% (racing accident with slightest of touches), both could avoid it. Leclerc was as guilty as Seb for giving his teammate nearly no room on the right, while having a ton of space on the left.
really?
My grandma could fit her 78 Cadillac Sedan De Ville in this gap!
This is was 100% Vettel face plant. That Leclerc could have avoided it had he wanted to, but he didn have to, he held his line and this is something Vettel has done dozens of times in his career. Hence the now infamous quote Vettel has forever hung around his neck.
"I think sometimes Seb forgets that where the back of his helmet is is not where the back of his car is! -MW
People keep trying to say that LEC could have given more space, it is absurd, he gave plenty more space than the 1 car width that he was required to. LEC could have moved over more, or lifted or even braked, but he is not required to. Vettel is required to not drive into the side of the car next to him.
Yes, both drivers could have avoided the collision, BUT ONLY 1 DRIVER CAUSED THE COLLISION AND THAT IS VETTEL.
I blame the FIA most of all for vettel's insane driving, the most outrageous maneuvers, crashing into others on the straight for God's sake, yet no penalty in Turkey 2010, no penalty in Singapore 2017, no penalty in Brazil 2019, and the imbeciles actually penalized Karthikeyan for Malaysia 2012 when Vettel clobbered into him. The fia need to get this maniac in check before he hurts someone. His behavior at the weigh bridges last year was stupefying, he was absolutely UNHINGED.
Vettel is getting a hammering of late. He showed at a young age he's a very talented driver, getting pole and the win in 08 was a very special moment for F1.
Vettel is not getting a hammering, he is giving it out crashing into his competitors left, right and up the rear.
Monza 08 was nothing but a lucky set of circumstances, not much different to Panis' sole win or when Fisi won in Brazil and Kimi had to hand him the trophy. All the fast cars got caught out by the weather in qually and had to start the race from the back of the grid. Monza 08 was in reality no more special than a gp2 reverse grid sprint race win, he did nothing special.
As others have pointed out, the 'you're the dominant driver as soon as you're a bit ahead'' thing Rosberg said ... insane.
Try doing that in any online lobby of a racing sim, it's just not how it works, is it?
Where did this line of thinking come from? I've heard a couple of drivers, usually the crash prone ones like Rosberg, Vettel and Massa, say it. And I've heard Brundle allude to something similar but there is absolutely no rule that gives it any credence. Also I've heard those same people refer to "owning the racing line" when side by side with other drivers giving them the "right" to turn into them.
Again, all of this falls on the FIA and their incompetence.
But the Brasil accident was 50-50% (racing accident with slightest of touches), both could avoid it. Leclerc was as guilty as Seb for giving his teammate nearly no room on the right, while having a ton of space on the left.
really?
My grandma could fit her 78 Cadillac Sedan De Ville in this gap!
This is was 100% Vettel face plant. That Leclerc could have avoided it had he wanted to, but he didn have to, he held his line and this is something Vettel has done dozens of times in his career. Hence the now infamous quote Vettel has forever hung around his neck.
"I think sometimes Seb forgets that where the back of his helmet is is not where the back of his car is! -MW
People keep trying to say that LEC could have given more space, it is absurd, he gave plenty more space than the 1 car width that he was required to. LEC could have moved over more, or lifted or even braked, but he is not required to. Vettel is required to not drive into the side of the car next to him.
Yes, both drivers could have avoided the collision, BUT ONLY 1 DRIVER CAUSED THE COLLISION AND THAT IS VETTEL.
I blame the FIA most of all for vettel's insane driving, the most outrageous maneuvers, crashing into others on the straight for God's sake, yet no penalty in Turkey 2010, no penalty in Singapore 2017, no penalty in Brazil 2019, and the imbeciles actually penalized Karthikeyan for Malaysia 2012 when Vettel clobbered into him. The fia need to get this maniac in check before he hurts someone. His behavior at the weigh bridges last year was stupefying, he was absolutely UNHINGED.
Plus, when he was at a young age, his bosses at Red Bull continuously made excuses for him, and reinforced/condoned his behaviour every time at the expense of all else. It's not hard to see where an attitude could come from under those circumstances.
This is was 100% Vettel face plant. That Leclerc could have avoided it had he wanted to, but he didn have to, he held his line and this is something Vettel has done dozens of times in his career. Hence the now infamous quote Vettel has forever hung around his neck.
"I think sometimes Seb forgets that where the back of his helmet is is not where the back of his car is! -MW
People keep trying to say that LEC could have given more space, it is absurd, he gave plenty more space than the 1 car width that he was required to. LEC could have moved over more, or lifted or even braked, but he is not required to. Vettel is required to not drive into the side of the car next to him.
Yes, both drivers could have avoided the collision, BUT ONLY 1 DRIVER CAUSED THE COLLISION AND THAT IS VETTEL.
I blame the FIA most of all for vettel's insane driving, the most outrageous maneuvers, crashing into others on the straight for God's sake, yet no penalty in Turkey 2010, no penalty in Singapore 2017, no penalty in Brazil 2019, and the imbeciles actually penalized Karthikeyan for Malaysia 2012 when Vettel clobbered into him. The fia need to get this maniac in check before he hurts someone. His behavior at the weigh bridges last year was stupefying, he was absolutely UNHINGED.
Plus, when he was at a young age, his bosses at Red Bull continuously made excuses for him, and reinforced/condoned his behaviour every time at the expense of all else. It's not hard to see where an attitude could come from under those circumstances.
I expect teams to back their drivers, the FIA needs to do their job as impartial referees, they are not.
People keep trying to say that LEC could have given more space, it is absurd, he gave plenty more space than the 1 car width that he was required to. LEC could have moved over more, or lifted or even braked, but he is not required to. Vettel is required to not drive into the side of the car next to him.
Yes, both drivers could have avoided the collision, BUT ONLY 1 DRIVER CAUSED THE COLLISION AND THAT IS VETTEL.
I blame the FIA most of all for vettel's insane driving, the most outrageous maneuvers, crashing into others on the straight for God's sake, yet no penalty in Turkey 2010, no penalty in Singapore 2017, no penalty in Brazil 2019, and the imbeciles actually penalized Karthikeyan for Malaysia 2012 when Vettel clobbered into him. The fia need to get this maniac in check before he hurts someone. His behavior at the weigh bridges last year was stupefying, he was absolutely UNHINGED.
Plus, when he was at a young age, his bosses at Red Bull continuously made excuses for him, and reinforced/condoned his behaviour every time at the expense of all else. It's not hard to see where an attitude could come from under those circumstances.
I expect teams to back their drivers, the FIA needs to do their job as impartial referees, they are not.
It's more when they always back that driver at the expense of the other driver in the team, (Vettel/Webber, Verstappen/Ricciardo) in events where really they are the offending party. That's really what i was trying to get at. I think it fosters a bad attitude in the driver.
Vettel is getting a hammering of late. He showed at a young age he's a very talented driver, getting pole and the win in 08 was a very special moment for F1.
Vettel is not getting a hammering, he is giving it out crashing into his competitors left, right and up the rear.
Monza 08 was nothing but a lucky set of circumstances, not much different to Panis' sole win or when Fisi won in Brazil and Kimi had to hand him the trophy. All the fast cars got caught out by the weather in qually and had to start the race from the back of the grid. Monza 08 was in reality no more special than a gp2 reverse grid sprint race win, he did nothing special.
What hogwash, to get pole and go on to dominate the race with much better cars around you shows how great a drive that was from Seb.
Vettel is getting a hammering of late. He showed at a young age he's a very talented driver, getting pole and the win in 08 was a very special moment for F1.
Vettel is not getting a hammering, he is giving it out crashing into his competitors left, right and up the rear.
Monza 08 was nothing but a lucky set of circumstances, not much different to Panis' sole win or when Fisi won in Brazil and Kimi had to hand him the trophy. All the fast cars got caught out by the weather in qually and had to start the race from the back of the grid. Monza 08 was in reality no more special than a gp2 reverse grid sprint race win, he did nothing special.
What hogwash, to get pole and go on to dominate the race with much better cars around you shows how great a drive that was from Seb.
What better cars? Hamilton, Alonso and Raikkonen started 15th or lower because of an unexpected increase in rain. It was lucky, nothing else.
really?
