General Honda F1 Topic

[izzy]

I do not respond to your message @Izzy, but I just read this and just want to post it here for notification.
Pure coincidence that you have just posted a message about it.

yes that's cool, we're both responding to the same thing, which is Honda's awesome success story. but for me this is F1, i don't necessarily believe what they say

My logic is that on the one hand Honda are saying the cost is so high, while on the other hand team Mercedes are celebrating their colossal return on investment which is something like 14800%

so for me, well they might feel safer just with engines, for now, or they won't want to unsettle Red Bull with the idea, or whatever, but in the end the logic of the thing says they ought to do F1 with Team HondaF1. And after all as i've said a lot of the knowledge that Yamamoto mentions as a barrier is about to come on the market, with the budget cap

[etusch]

I think if they win wdc or fight for win it next year and coming rules are good for them they may decide to stay. But these are not only things they consider I think.

Yes surely they've learned from last time, that it doesn't make sense to come into F1 for a few years. It takes a few years to become competitive, so that is the worst of all worlds! Now they've finally caught up, after all that pain and Fernando's famous putdowns, they have to be here to stay, that's the only way it makes sense, to make your brand synonymous with F1 brands and build that association, which takes a lot of time

i do think tho that being just an engine supplier is the most expensive and least rewarding way to do it, I won't be surprised if they move on from that back into a Honda team eventually, whatever they say now

I think having own team scenario is only choosable by Honda if.they can buy.a winning team as Mercedes did. For me it is better to have name sponsorship with Redbull.
In the other hand, all F1 fans know that Toro Rosso out draged a Mercedes with Honda Engine which is important for Honda

[etusch]

The ICE regulations are staying relatively untouched save for a few standardized parts. I guess those parts aren't going to affect the Honda power unit tremendously, which was my fear in their tentativeness to commit further.

Honda is considering expences and standart parts are good for Honda's financial departmant but standart parts are not good for Honda's engineering departmant and pu I am afraid.

[Marti_EF3]

What parts will be standarized? Maybe not affecting performance per se, but maybe affectting the weight of the PU which is one of the strong points of the Honda PU if I'm correct

[godlameroso]

What parts will be standarized? Maybe not affecting performance per se, but maybe affectting the weight of the PU which is one of the strong points of the Honda PU if I'm correct

The fuel system before the injectors/fuel rail.

The ignition system before the spark plugs.

Not sure what else.

[izzy]

I think having own team scenario is only choosable by Honda if.they can buy.a winning team as Mercedes did. For me it is better to have name sponsorship with Redbull.
In the other hand, all F1 fans know that Toro Rosso out draged a Mercedes with Honda Engine which is important for Honda

I suppose it's ok if everyone puts Honda in the name, like people still talk about McLaren-Honda, but during the races it's mostly just "Red Bull" or "Torro Rosso". And right now is a good time as they're news with having caught up, but after a while I think they'll be mentioned less as everyone gets used to the engines being more or less on a par and the differences will be the chassis, drivers and teams. But yes buying a team would be much the best, like buying Red Bull even, if Dietrich has had enough. But Williams is probably the most likely and that'll need a lot of rebuilding. So a 5 year plan really

[Capharol]

I think having own team scenario is only choosable by Honda if.they can buy.a winning team as Mercedes did. For me it is better to have name sponsorship with Redbull.
In the other hand, all F1 fans know that Toro Rosso out draged a Mercedes with Honda Engine which is important for Honda

I suppose it's ok if everyone puts Honda in the name, like people still talk about McLaren-Honda, but during the races it's mostly just "Red Bull" or "Torro Rosso". And right now is a good time as they're news with having caught up, but after a while I think they'll be mentioned less as everyone gets used to the engines being more or less on a par and the differences will be the chassis, drivers and teams. But yes buying a team would be much the best, like buying Red Bull even, if Dietrich has had enough. But Williams is probably the most likely and that'll need a lot of rebuilding. So a 5 year plan really

no if Honda returns as a F1 team, they won't buy a williams which has barely any success and is in need to be rebuild, which costs a load of money.....

I only see Honda being a F1 team if they get the best car, best team, best facillities, best designers.... etc. they have learned from the McLaren desaster in this Hybrid era

[Jambier]

I think having own team scenario is only choosable by Honda if.they can buy.a winning team as Mercedes did. For me it is better to have name sponsorship with Redbull.
In the other hand, all F1 fans know that Toro Rosso out draged a Mercedes with Honda Engine which is important for Honda

I suppose it's ok if everyone puts Honda in the name, like people still talk about McLaren-Honda, but during the races it's mostly just "Red Bull" or "Torro Rosso". And right now is a good time as they're news with having caught up, but after a while I think they'll be mentioned less as everyone gets used to the engines being more or less on a par and the differences will be the chassis, drivers and teams. But yes buying a team would be much the best, like buying Red Bull even, if Dietrich has had enough. But Williams is probably the most likely and that'll need a lot of rebuilding. So a 5 year plan really

Exactly... 4 titles for Renault with Red bull, but Renault were very disappointed regarding the benefits they get from that

[Jambier]

I think having own team scenario is only choosable by Honda if.they can buy.a winning team as Mercedes did. For me it is better to have name sponsorship with Redbull.
In the other hand, all F1 fans know that Toro Rosso out draged a Mercedes with Honda Engine which is important for Honda

I suppose it's ok if everyone puts Honda in the name, like people still talk about McLaren-Honda, but during the races it's mostly just "Red Bull" or "Torro Rosso". And right now is a good time as they're news with having caught up, but after a while I think they'll be mentioned less as everyone gets used to the engines being more or less on a par and the differences will be the chassis, drivers and teams. But yes buying a team would be much the best, like buying Red Bull even, if Dietrich has had enough. But Williams is probably the most likely and that'll need a lot of rebuilding. So a 5 year plan really

no if Honda returns as a F1 team, they won't buy a williams which has barely any success and is in need to be rebuild, which costs a load of money.....

I only see Honda being a F1 team if they get the best car, best team, best facillities, best designers.... etc. they have learned from the McLaren desaster in this Hybrid era

They should buy back Brakley

[Hino]

Honda talks about 2022, 2023 already underway – Marko

Red Bull is already in talks to extend its engine deal with Honda beyond 2021.

Both Red Bull-owned teams announced on Wednesday that their Honda contracts have been extended for one more year. The existing deal had been set to run out in 2020.

“This is a great relief for us,” Dr Helmut Marko told the Austrian broadcaster Servus TV.

“We are very satisfied with Honda.”

It seems that Honda’s biggest concern about the new era of Formula 1 from 2021 is the costs.

Liberty Media and the FIA are working hard to cap costs for the teams, but the engine regulations are staying the same and do not fall under the budget cap.

“Obviously, good results will help to continue the (F1) programme, but the balance between the input and the results also has to be

right,” Honda’s Masahi Yamamoto told Auto Bild.
“It is not easy to get to the top and we have to manage to do so in a financially sound way.”

Marko says talks about extending the deal beyond 2021 are already underway.

“We are already talking to Honda about a further cooperation for 2022 and 2023,” he revealed.

“That depends to a large extent on the cost savings, but the FIA is now starting to recognise that.

“They have expressed the intention to freeze the engines from 2021. That would ensure that the development would almost stagnate and the costs can also be drastically reduced.”

Marko said the way the conversation about engine costs develops will be key to Honda’s future in F1 beyond 2021.

“It can indeed prove to be crucial for Honda and would allow for further cooperation,” he said.

https://grandpx.news/honda-talks-about- ... way-marko/

[Bill]

An engine freeze is not realistic if fia wants to achieve its goal of zero emissions by 2026 ,an elegant way to reduce costs will be to go back to token system.

[nzjrs]

An engine freeze is not realistic if fia wants to achieve its goal of zero emissions by 2026 ,an elegant way to reduce costs will be to go back to token system.

LOL. Seriously?

[izzy]

Freezes don't work the way you'd think. It means even tiny gains make a big difference, because the others are exactly on a par, so if you can somehow reduce a tolerance or whatever it's worth spending the money. So they spend the money. Being consistently a fraction ahead is fine.

Last time, Flav fell for it, downsized Renault, and they've never really recovered, because the others still found ways and means to spend money.

Honda need to concentrate on just getting benefit. I think they are trying, but cheap F1 isn't going to happen, F1 makes too much money. It's strictly for the big dogs, ask Gene

[Bill]

Freeze literally means that , zero development unless you have reliability issues then you can fix that. Some teams cheated using "reliability " fixes to squeeze in a little bit of performance but I think fia would be wise these time.

Fia do have a plan about using bio fuels and emissions reduction so some developments will still need to be done on pu front.

F1 is still competition I think they should let them fight it out but within narrow confines on pu development like just focusing on combustion chamber and turbos.

[Webber2011]

An engine freeze is not realistic if fia wants to achieve its goal of zero emissions by 2026 ,an elegant way to reduce costs will be to go back to token system.

Just No mate....... seriously, just no.

The token system was the thing that killed Honda in their earlier years with the McLaren partnership.

I reckon that would be a bad idea man