Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

[El Scorchio]

Good bit of chat on Sky about it just now.

Obviously if Leclerc's car is still overweight by the same amount as the discrepancy earlier then it's probably fine and all they've done is handicap themselves. If not then they may be in trouble. Is it all a coincidence that this is happening now after the past few races and TDs etc?

However, there was some radio talk where they asked Vettel to go into fuel saving mode during the race and Vettel said 'Why?'
Could they have been off the pace because they needed to use less fuel than they'd planned to? (IF the overfill/discrepancy was NOT accidental and they are breaching rules.) Is that what's been happening in the last few races, hence the drop in pace?

I'm not accusing, just musing.

the problem isn't really that they took more or less fuel (to mch is a breach aswell) but the difference between what was in the car and what Ferrari said was in the car.
and now they need to find out by how much and if it breaches the rules

Yes exactly- I don't think I put it very well above at all actually! They also just said that even if the numbers don't add up, as it's only a directive rather than a rule or reg, there wouldn't definitely be a penalty anyway.

[63l8qrrfy6]

Can someone confirm whether they declared more or less than what was actually measured by the FIA?

[Big Tea]

Can someone confirm whether they declared more or less than what was actually measured by the FIA?

They put more in than they stated.

This was a penalty of having extra weight, but it was more to burn. Which was or was not intended.

[subcritical71]

Can someone confirm whether they declared more or less than what was actually measured by the FIA?

They put more in than they stated.

This was a penalty of having extra weight, but it was more to burn. Which was or was not intended.

I believe it’s not the reason, but seems strange to under report a fuel mass when your being questioned openly about altering fuel flow measurements.

[El Scorchio]

Yes it does. Either a very unfortunately timed genuine error, or been caught out.

Don’t really know how you could try and cheat such a directive though. The weight is the weight. Depends how stringent the stewards are normally with these things I suppose.

I wonder who fills it in on behalf of the team? Surely not someone who is leaving at the end of the season?....

[flexcon]

I suppose this is how conspiracy’s are a self fulfilling notion.

Ferrari cheating flow sensor so “more” fuel gets past the flow meter in between measure points.

So they could burn 115kg of fuel but sensor only reads 110kg.

It would make sense though.

Not saying I agree!


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[saviour stivala]

Can someone confirm whether they declared more or less than what was actually measured by the FIA?

They put more in than they stated.

This was a penalty of having extra weight, but it was more to burn. Which was or was not intended.

I believe it’s not the reason, but seems strange to under report a fuel mass when your being questioned openly about altering fuel flow measurements.

The fuel load have nothing to do with fuel flow. In fact since the start of the fuel flow formula a FERRARI car or a car using a FERRARI engine are the only type that didn’t as yet breached the fuel flow rules with the resultant disqualifications.

[saviour stivala]

I suppose this is how conspiracy’s are a self fulfilling notion.

Ferrari cheating flow sensor so “more” fuel gets past the flow meter in between measure points.

So they could burn 115kg of fuel but sensor only reads 110kg.

It would make sense though.

Not saying I agree!


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The fuel sensor have nothing to do with this.

[hape]

Well I dont know the procedure of the FIA on how they determine the amount of fuel burned by the teams during the race, but I have difficulty believing they only rely on the numbers they receive from the teams and only check the weight of the driver and the car afterwards to see if they were not underweighted.
First of all they have the mass flow meter and I bet it has a pulse counter, providing exactly how much fuel is burned in the race.
And for sure the FIA checks weights before and after the race to see if the numbers match with the counter on the fuel flow meter.

So while not correct, I have difficulty believing this was done on purpose to be able to burn 4.8kg of extra fuel during the race. But maybe someone can teach me on this.

[subcritical71]

They put more in than they stated.

This was a penalty of having extra weight, but it was more to burn. Which was or was not intended.

I believe it’s not the reason, but seems strange to under report a fuel mass when your being questioned openly about altering fuel flow measurements.

The fuel load have nothing to do with fuel flow. In fact since the start of the fuel flow formula a FERRARI car or a car using a FERRARI engine are the only type that didn’t as yet breached the fuel flow rules with the resultant disqualifications.

Really? If I have 5 more kilos of unaccounted for fuel what could I do with that unaccounted for fuel if I can pass more fuel than is measured by the FIA sensor? hmmmm!
Again, I said I don’t believe this is the reason, just that it doesn’t look good, and they are the first and only manufacturer to be seen outside the rules in this regard.

[flexcon]

I suppose this is how conspiracy’s are a self fulfilling notion.

Ferrari cheating flow sensor so “more” fuel gets past the flow meter in between measure points.

So they could burn 115kg of fuel but sensor only reads 110kg.

It would make sense though.

Not saying I agree!


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The fuel sensor have nothing to do with this.

I’m saying when you look to tie the two issues together. Question marks over the fuel flow meter being tricked to allowing more flow between the measuring points.

That is going to put fuel consumption very high if Ferrari do this throughout the race so they could well be over fuelling the car for this very reason.

Talking out of my backside as a thought that’s all



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[subcritical71]

I suppose this is how conspiracy’s are a self fulfilling notion.

Ferrari cheating flow sensor so “more” fuel gets past the flow meter in between measure points.

So they could burn 115kg of fuel but sensor only reads 110kg.

It would make sense though.

Not saying I agree!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The fuel sensor have nothing to do with this.

I’m saying when you look to tie the two issues together. Question marks over the fuel flow meter being tricked to allowing more flow between the measuring points.

That is going to put fuel consumption very high if Ferrari do this throughout the race so they could well be over fuelling the car for this very reason.

Talking out of my backside as a thought that’s all



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Exactly my point also.

[hape]

The fuel sensor have nothing to do with this.

I’m saying when you look to tie the two issues together. Question marks over the fuel flow meter being tricked to allowing more flow between the measuring points.

That is going to put fuel consumption very high if Ferrari do this throughout the race so they could well be over fuelling the car for this very reason.

Talking out of my backside as a thought that’s all



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Exactly my point also.

But then it is strange they weren’t caught before and they are caught now that the appropriate TD has been handed out....?

[henry]

I believe it’s not the reason, but seems strange to under report a fuel mass when your being questioned openly about altering fuel flow measurements.

The fuel load have nothing to do with fuel flow. In fact since the start of the fuel flow formula a FERRARI car or a car using a FERRARI engine are the only type that didn’t as yet breached the fuel flow rules with the resultant disqualifications.

Really? If I have 5 more kilos of unaccounted for fuel what could I do with that unaccounted for fuel if I can pass more fuel than is measured by the FIA sensor? hmmmm!
Again, I said I don’t believe this is the reason, just that it doesn’t look good, and they are the first and only manufacturer to be seen outside the rules in this regard.

5kg extra used used during WOT through the race would be in the ballpark of 40kW.

That’s not to say Ferrari intended to use it, but that’s what the consequence would be if they, or anyone else, could find a way to do this.

The measurement protocol is only a partial control. Once a team has been informed there is a discrepancy between measured and reported they have the possibility to ensure the part of the protocol that measures after the race is ok.

Of course almost all situations like this are simple human error.

[henry]

I’m saying when you look to tie the two issues together. Question marks over the fuel flow meter being tricked to allowing more flow between the measuring points.

That is going to put fuel consumption very high if Ferrari do this throughout the race so they could well be over fuelling the car for this very reason.

Talking out of my backside as a thought that’s all



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Exactly my point also.

But then it is strange they weren’t caught before and they are caught now that the appropriate TD has been handed out....?

The TD is in place since February this year.