2019 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina Circuit, 29 - 1 November/December

[turbof1]

Edit: XXXXXXXX Izzy, stop being so awesome.

Moderator, is that you? Dude, why are you're using so many curse words ?

It is marketing, keeping me relatable to the underclass members! Give them the impression you are one of them, and they listen better.

Atleast that's how I fool myself each and every time.

Yes, that is a joke if anybody has doubts about that.

[NathanOlder]

I'm not good with weights, is 4.88kg a lot?

Well first of all it depends if they exceeded the 105kg, or that they just had more fuel in the tank than they rapported to the FIA (e.g. rapported 100kg, while 104.88kg was in the tank).

Given 105kg is the maximum, it is at the very least 4.64% more fuel. I'd say significant yes. It'll allow for more fuel to be burned and therefore less lift and coast.

For the record, I am correct to assume this is a breach of the technical regulations right? Or is it sporting regulations?

It is a technical regulation breach..... but why would they do that? coz it seems the weight or fuel and car are also calculated after the race! What benifits can that give?

Exactly.

2 things that really matter,
Was the car over the 110kg fuel limit at the start?
Did the car at any point exceed the 100kg per hour fuel flow limit?

If no to both, then a fine for the error in figures at the start is fine surely. A bit fine at that, and I'm far from a Ferrari fan.

[NathanOlder]

This is ridiculous. 5kg that nobody knows about and that you are free to burn extra. This would have given them bragging right “see, no cheating” If undiscovered. Now they are discovered and still no penalty. A big shame and a very big shadow over the second half of this season.

Were they 5kg over the 110kg limit?

As far as I know they all start well under that. then do the fuel saving to get to then end of the race

[Sieper]

Offcourse not. First of, the limit is 110kg this year. Second, they got caught before the race so I am sure they will have had to do something about it before being allowed to start.

Would they not have been caught before race start they could have burned 5 more kg then declared, even without going over the fuel flow limit at Any given time this would be massively helpfull to pace (see Bahrein).

If they would have gotten caught with 114.88 kg they should have been DSQed right there and then imho. But, ok, also now they have been caught and convicted.

[El Scorchio]

All feels like pieces of the same puzzle are coming together with this Ferrari fuel thing.

[El Scorchio]

This is ridiculous. 5kg that nobody knows about and that you are free to burn extra. This would have given them bragging right “see, no cheating” If undiscovered. Now they are discovered and still no penalty. A big shame and a very big shadow over the second half of this season.

Were they 5kg over the 110kg limit?

As far as I know they all start well under that. then do the fuel saving to get to then end of the race

If there’s a question over the Ferraris somehow being able to use more fuel than the sensors record, AND they are under-reporting the amount of fuel in the car before the race just gives them more fuel to burn and more juice than everyone else. Should make up for any extra weight they might be carrying.

Interesting also that Vettel was asked to switch to fuel saving mode in the race but didn’t understand why...

[zibby43]

Great article on Hamilton's performance this year:

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opin ... s-mercedes

"The Mercedes has been on pole in only 47% of the races so far this year. Its average qualifying advantage over the Ferrari is less than 0.15sec. Its advantage over the second-fastest car, in other words, is only around one-tenth of that enjoyed by Senna/Prost in 1988 or Mansell/Patrese in ’92. Those cars had about the same pace advantage over the second-fastest car that Hamilton’s Mercedes has over this year’s McLaren or Renault, cars that the Merc and Ferrari routinely lap before the end of the race."

Should help some gain a better perspective on how impressive his performance was this year (as opposed to the car's).

[Pyrone89]

I'm not good with weights, is 4.88kg a lot?

More than 4% of total weight. That is not just a simple mistake. Although we are talking about a team where a mechanic forgot to put his gloves on in a DOUBLE pit stop when handling 100 degrees celcius rubber (check the footage of the long Vettel stop )

Its only like just over 0.5% of total car weight. so not too much to fuss about. The car was over the minimum car weight, so its not a big issue.

Sorry, I was talking about fuel weight

[MtthsMlw]

This is ridiculous. 5kg that nobody knows about and that you are free to burn extra. This would have given them bragging right “see, no cheating” If undiscovered. Now they are discovered and still no penalty. A big shame and a very big shadow over the second half of this season.

Were they 5kg over the 110kg limit?

As far as I know they all start well under that. then do the fuel saving to get to then end of the race

Interesting also that Vettel was asked to switch to fuel saving mode in the race but didn’t understand why...

Engine 4 isn't really a fuel safe mode, he got others labeled FS2, FS4, FS6, FS8 for that.
It has more to do with power, engine 4 is often the lowest mode used during races, for sure it also consumes less fuel than the higher modes (engine 1 & 2). Also his PU was at the end of it's life anyways and maybe some sensor reading triggered them to turn it down a little which no driver likes.
Wouldn't interpreted too much into that.

[NathanOlder]

Ok so am I right in thinking something like

(example figures)

the teams use around 95kg fuel. they report that figure at the start, then after the race the cars are weighed and the FIA calculate that they all used roughly 93kg in the race.

Ferrari say the same "we have 95kg in the car". If they told the truth and said 100kg, then the other teams would be very suspicious that using that amount is odd and unlikely.

Ferrari can use the extra fuel by tricking the fuel flow sensor somehow, and because they are claiming they are using the same amount of fuel as the rest, no one really has their suspicions.

Because they were caught out just before the race start, both cars were over fueled to what they claimed.

Both cars then had to run in different engine modes to make sure they didnt use that extra fuel that they had onboard.

Obviously its speculation, but it add more fuel to the current Ferrari PU.

[Sieper]

Ok so am I right in thinking something like

(example figures)

the teams use around 95kg fuel. they report that figure at the start, then after the race the cars are weighed and the FIA calculate that they all used roughly 93kg in the race.

Ferrari say the same "we have 95kg in the car". If they told the truth and said 100kg, then the other teams would be very suspicious that using that amount is odd and unlikely.

Ferrari can use the extra fuel by tricking the fuel flow sensor somehow, and because they are claiming they are using the same amount of fuel as the rest, no one really has their suspicions.

Because they were caught out just before the race start, both cars were over fueled to what they claimed.

Both cars then had to run in different engine modes to make sure they didnt use that extra fuel that they had onboard.

Obviously its speculation, but it add more fuel to the current Ferrari PU.

I think this is exactly what is what happend. Had they have Bern above the 110kg limit they would have been straight DSQed I presume.

[NathanOlder]

More than 4% of total weight. That is not just a simple mistake. Although we are talking about a team where a mechanic forgot to put his gloves on in a DOUBLE pit stop when handling 100 degrees celcius rubber (check the footage of the long Vettel stop )

Its only like just over 0.5% of total car weight. so not too much to fuss about. The car was over the minimum car weight, so its not a big issue.

Sorry, I was talking about fuel weight

I did think that, bit the " total weight " bit threw me. no worries.

[NathanOlder]

Were they 5kg over the 110kg limit?

As far as I know they all start well under that. then do the fuel saving to get to then end of the race

Interesting also that Vettel was asked to switch to fuel saving mode in the race but didn’t understand why...

Engine 4 isn't really a fuel safe mode, he got others labeled FS2, FS4, FS6, FS8 for that.
It has more to do with power, engine 4 is often the lowest mode used during races, for sure it also consumes less fuel than the higher modes (engine 1 & 2). Also his PU was at the end of it's life anyways and maybe some sensor reading triggered them to turn it down a little which no driver likes.
Wouldn't interpreted too much into that.

I think it was when Seb questioned it and the answer he got is what has people suspicious.

If it was reliability, why didn't the team just say so.

[NathanOlder]

Another thing, how the hell did Kvyat not get anything for blatantly cutting turn 18.

Ran. wide in 17, then just totally ignored turn 18. I didn't see anything, not even a noted mention.

[Pyrone89]

Great article on Hamilton's performance this year:

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opin ... s-mercedes

"The Mercedes has been on pole in only 47% of the races so far this year. Its average qualifying advantage over the Ferrari is less than 0.15sec. Its advantage over the second-fastest car, in other words, is only around one-tenth of that enjoyed by Senna/Prost in 1988 or Mansell/Patrese in ’92. Those cars had about the same pace advantage over the second-fastest car that Hamilton’s Mercedes has over this year’s McLaren or Renault, cars that the Merc and Ferrari routinely lap before the end of the race."

Should help some gain a better perspective on how impressive his performance was this year (as opposed to the car's).

Race pace vs quali pace is a different ball game. Mercedes was ruling all year long especially in rave pace. In quali they were also very good and the stat is mostly skewed due to the weird thing happening with Ferrari until the TD.

PS: this is widely off topic and the mod has already asked us to not discuss this here, so why continue?