2018-2020 Tyres Thread

[henry]

If the tyres stay the same and downforce goes up the hysteresis energy input to the carcass on high speed straights will go up and it is possible that Pirelli will require higher tyre pressures. Higher tyre pressures will make it harder to get heat into the tyres and those teams with lower downforce will be hit once more.

Edit: I see that @izzy got there before me.

They should just leave the pressure upto the teams, that would let all teams to be competitive

And risk blow outs. Who do you think would get blamed for tyres failing because teams had set pressures too low?

Pirelli might set pressures on a per team basis but then there would be uproar about preferential treatment. So now they set them to suit the front 3 teams and the rest suffer.

[siskue2005]

If the tyres stay the same and downforce goes up the hysteresis energy input to the carcass on high speed straights will go up and it is possible that Pirelli will require higher tyre pressures. Higher tyre pressures will make it harder to get heat into the tyres and those teams with lower downforce will be hit once more.

Edit: I see that @izzy got there before me.

They should just leave the pressure upto the teams, that would let all teams to be competitive

And risk blow outs. Who do you think would get blamed for tyres failing because teams had set pressures too low?

Pirelli might set pressures on a per team basis but then there would be uproar about preferential treatment. So now they set them to suit the front 3 teams and the rest suffer.

But this tyre pressure limit was only set in 2013....teams used to manage without the tyre pressure limit before 2013... i guess it is the teams responsibility not to blow their tyres.

The tyre pressure limit is just another band aid fix for the poor quality pirelli tyre

[izzy]

But this tyre pressure limit was only set in 2013....teams used to manage without the tyre pressure limit before 2013... i guess it is the teams responsibility not to blow their tyres.

yes exactly only from 2013, and that all only happened because Pirelli allowed Mercedes to run them backwards! Teams don't want to blow a tyre, it's the whole weekend wasted. But after that Pirelli were allowed to set minimum pressures and camber and obviously now they love it, they can manage their brand with it, while each weekend teams have to try and work with a different pressure, which is a different stiffness and contact patch. imo this nukes the small teams disproportionately

[siskue2005]

But this tyre pressure limit was only set in 2013....teams used to manage without the tyre pressure limit before 2013... i guess it is the teams responsibility not to blow their tyres.

yes exactly only from 2013, and that all only happened because Pirelli allowed Mercedes to run them backwards! Teams don't want to blow a tyre, it's the whole weekend wasted. But after that Pirelli were allowed to set minimum pressures and camber and obviously now they love it, they can manage their brand with it, while each weekend teams have to try and work with a different pressure, which is a different stiffness and contact patch. imo this nukes the small teams disproportionately

The problem is teams have been running left side tyres on right side (that will make it backwards on the other side) for a long long time.... it was not coz Mercedes did it and caused a problem all of a sudden.... it just shows that their tyre is poor quality and the sad part is they even dictate the camber and toe in of the car

[izzy]

The problem is teams have been running left side tyres on right side (that will make it backwards on the other side) for a long long time.... it was not coz Mercedes did it and caused a problem all of a sudden.... it just shows that their tyre is poor quality and the sad part is they even dictate the camber and toe in of the car

they'd changed the construction that year, they were very directional, they should never have been run backwards but Pirelli okayed it. So they failed a lot, at the join between the sidewall and the tread, and that's why suddenly the tyre supplier was allowed to dictate minimum pressures even tho it wasn't really the problem. It was a pretext, that suits Pirelli not the sport, apart from what Pirelli pay

[Sevach]

But this tyre pressure limit was only set in 2013....teams used to manage without the tyre pressure limit before 2013... i guess it is the teams responsibility not to blow their tyres.

yes exactly only from 2013, and that all only happened because Pirelli allowed Mercedes to run them backwards! Teams don't want to blow a tyre, it's the whole weekend wasted. But after that Pirelli were allowed to set minimum pressures and camber and obviously now they love it, they can manage their brand with it, while each weekend teams have to try and work with a different pressure, which is a different stiffness and contact patch. imo this nukes the small teams disproportionately

Fairly sure it was Ferrari Spa 2015 that brought minimum pressure checks.
Vettel's tire blew up with a few laps to go after running both way longer and with way lower pressures than prescribed, Ferrari didn't like being told that and kept screaming in the press, FIA/Pirelli instituted min pressure checks.

Mercedes Silverstone 2013, brought 2012 spec tires and a prohibition to mounting the tires backwards.

[izzy]

Fairly sure it was Ferrari Spa 2015 that brought minimum pressure checks.
Vettel's tire blew up with a few laps to go after running both way longer and with way lower pressures than prescribed, Ferrari didn't like being told that and kept screaming in the press, FIA/Pirelli instituted min pressure checks.

Mercedes Silverstone 2013, brought 2012 spec tires and a prohibition to mounting the tires backwards.

oh yes you're right, up to then it was only "strong advice". Still i think it's a pity, teams don't want their tyres to blow up after all, and the high pressures are such a performance factor

[Sevach]

Fairly sure it was Ferrari Spa 2015 that brought minimum pressure checks.
Vettel's tire blew up with a few laps to go after running both way longer and with way lower pressures than prescribed, Ferrari didn't like being told that and kept screaming in the press, FIA/Pirelli instituted min pressure checks.

Mercedes Silverstone 2013, brought 2012 spec tires and a prohibition to mounting the tires backwards.

oh yes you're right, up to then it was only "strong advice". Still i think it's a pity, teams don't want their tyres to blow up after all, and the high pressures are such a performance factor

Absolutely, right now teams are asked to assemble a complex puzzle (putting crappy Pirellis in their window) while having their hands tied behind their backs.

Doesn't help that Pirelli is conservative as hell with their recommendations.

[izzy]

Absolutely, right now teams are asked to assemble a complex puzzle (putting crappy Pirellis in their window) while having their hands tied behind their backs.

Doesn't help that Pirelli is conservative as hell with their recommendations.

yes and it allows them to keep designing tyres that are fastest at unsafe pressures! I don't like to bash Pirelli but surely they could design a tyre that's fastest at a safe pressure, that would fix the problem much more elegantly than yet another rule

as it is I hope teams know what they've voted for, a HIGH PRESSURE 2019 tyre vs a lower pressure new profile. Tho it's understandable they didn't want to redo all their aero at this late stage

[Holm86]

Pirelli has set a limit on both pressure, and camber angles which makes it even harder to find that minimal sweet spot their tyres have.
I really don't think they're up to the task, and had hoped another manufacturer had won the tender

[siskue2005]

2020 first 4 races tyre selection


https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/pire ... e/4608851/
"If we stay on the current construction the only the only thing we can do, the only tool we have is pressure," Isola said.

"What is on the table is exactly this - we can stay on 2019 [tyres] accepting that pressure is raised according to the performance of the cars, and probably we have more degradation and more overheating."


Here we go, it is official now

[JordanMugen]

Pirelli has set a limit on both pressure, and camber angles which makes it even harder to find that minimal sweet spot their tyres have.
I really don't think they're up to the task, and had hoped another manufacturer had won the tender

Hankook were rejected. Does anyone know if the dissatisfaction with Hankook's tender was technical or commercial in nature?

[JordanMugen]

Devils advocate here.. so Pirelli supply tyres that are not acceptable to ALL the teams and thereby save themselves a huge amount of money developing tyres for next year. Now they just continue with what they have already invested in and what all the manufacturing side has already been producing. Continuity with the 2019 tyre must be quite a saving I would think Not like the temptation to throw already previously designed not good enough tyres at the teams to test would be considered? I mean there is no competitor supplying tyres for a benchmark is there?

Just following the money......

To make prototype 2020 tyres they would have already had to manufacture the moulds -- only two anyway, far less than for releasing a road tyre. Plus design the 2020 layups and compounds.

Would there really be a saving?

[subcritical71]

Devils advocate here.. so Pirelli supply tyres that are not acceptable to ALL the teams and thereby save themselves a huge amount of money developing tyres for next year. Now they just continue with what they have already invested in and what all the manufacturing side has already been producing. Continuity with the 2019 tyre must be quite a saving I would think Not like the temptation to throw already previously designed not good enough tyres at the teams to test would be considered? I mean there is no competitor supplying tyres for a benchmark is there?

Just following the money......

To make prototype 2020 tyres they would have already had to manufacture the moulds -- only two anyway, far less than for releasing a road tyre. Plus design the 2020 layups and compounds.

Would there really be a saving?

I think it is really easy to forget that once you have a working piece most of your costs are already sunk.

[Juzh]

Fairly sure it was Ferrari Spa 2015 that brought minimum pressure checks.
Vettel's tire blew up with a few laps to go after running both way longer and with way lower pressures than prescribed, Ferrari didn't like being told that and kept screaming in the press, FIA/Pirelli instituted min pressure checks.

Mercedes Silverstone 2013, brought 2012 spec tires and a prohibition to mounting the tires backwards.

oh yes you're right, up to then it was only "strong advice". Still i think it's a pity, teams don't want their tyres to blow up after all, and the high pressures are such a performance factor

Absolutely, right now teams are asked to assemble a complex puzzle (putting crappy Pirellis in their window) while having their hands tied behind their backs.

Doesn't help that Pirelli is conservative as hell with their recommendations.

Vettel's laptimes were still competitive in spa 2015, there was just a bit of drop off but still not enough for grosjean to attack him seriously. So this blow-out is solely down to pirelli imo. Do we have any soures or quotes ferrari ran lower than usual pressures?