Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

[izzy]

Would be interesting to know what the expectation of Andy Cowell is based on. If Ferrari actually takes a significant step back PU wise in 2020, then there must be a big hurricane going on inside the team at the moment. Because with the incoming freezing of the PU development, they could as well forget about being competitive for an undefined period of time.

perhaps he's thinking more about the operation of the car. The engines will probably all have converged won't they? That's what i'm expecting anyhow. The chassis will all be beautifully engineered as well, in their second year and with the same tyres even. So then race weekends will be the biggest factor, and historically, recently at least, they've tended to be stronger for Mercedes and Red Bull, in the management of qualy, strategy, pitstops and the driving. So perhaps Andy's thinking the Ferrari PU will just have been brought back to par and then the race teams will be the difference

[zibby43]

I've had a few interesting chats with engineers involved in F1 and I think I have finally managed to piece together a coherent story (notice the use of he word 'story').

As I understand it has been known even since the previous season that the fuel flow meters could be tricked into reading low using various methods such as pre-conditioning the flow in a certain manner, creating thermal gradients across the sensor or aliasing the sampling signal. To prevent this, the FIA together with the sensor supplier (I was originally told this was sentronics as I've shared on the forum but I have also heard of GILL controls from a different source) developed a functionality that integrates the measurements to calculate the total mass flow over a race distance. This can then be compared to the fuel mass declared by the team at the start of the race and the fuel mass left in the car after the race and is an effective safeguard against any FFM tricks.

However, just before the Brazil race, Mercedes and their fuel systems expert (interestingly an ex-Ferrari frenchman) summoned the FIA and presented a few ways of also circumventing the FFM total mass safeguard. I am told they showed the FIA that a pressure release valve or a tuned orifice located after the sensor could be used to return fuel to the tank at part load (eg. when the fuel flow would have been below 100 kg/h) in effect 'counting' fuel that wasn't being burned to compensate for a FFM that was reading lower than the actual flow rate. FIA's response was to confiscate Ferrari's fuel system after the race. No one I've talked to could say what the outcome of FIA's investigation was but this certainly puts the Abu Dhabi fuel mass declaration error in a very different light.

I am also told that, while not directly accusing Ferrari of cheating, Andy Cowell declared in the last post-race debrief that they are expecting Ferrari to take a significant step back for 2020 and they now consider RBR Honda their main competitor for the next season.

Outstanding info. Thank you for sharing.

[gruntguru]

Great info.

[Alexf1]

Oh boy, imagine if this is what they have been doing since last year..

[saviour stivala]

Trying to answer most probably will not be let to stand for trying to prove others wrong even so other are allowed to push out onto here a veritable load of BS which got flowing most probably by the second or third pint of bear between friends.

[Polite]

Trying to answer most probably will not be let to stand for trying to prove others wrong even so other are allowed to push out onto here a veritable load of BS which got flowing most probably by the second or third pint of bear between friends.

Quote!

a lot of bias and fake news..

insiders "dei miei stivali".

[LM10]

Would be interesting to know what the expectation of Andy Cowell is based on. If Ferrari actually takes a significant step back PU wise in 2020, then there must be a big hurricane going on inside the team at the moment. Because with the incoming freezing of the PU development, they could as well forget about being competitive for an undefined period of time.

Coming from a team that won both championships with ease on an engine that is supposedly down some 40hp in Quali..
Ferrari proved they can produce a competitive car in 2017 without all the engine drama involved.
Any assumptions on how well a car will perform next season are far-fetched.

I agree with all.

It’s kinda impossible for a person outside of the team to predict such a thing like a “significant step back” because Ferrari have done major changes to their PU. So how’s anyone gonna know what power they will be able to bring on the track?
What’s more, even if we take off Ferrari’s excessive power advantage, I doubt they’ll fall behind others significantly. They probably will be on par with others at least.

[LM10]

Binotto: "The Power Unit will be strongly revised, also from an architectural point of view, especially in the upper part, in the endothermic heads. Despite the stability of regulation since 2014, we think there is still much to do."

Andy Cowell (supposedly) telling that Ferrari will take a significant step back next year and Binotto, on the other hand, telling that there still is much to do power wise. Funny!

[izzy]

It’s kinda impossible for a person outside of the team to predict such a thing like a “significant step back” because Ferrari have done major changes to their PU. So how’s anyone gonna know what power they will be able to bring on the track?
What’s more, even if we take off Ferrari’s excessive power advantage, I doubt they’ll fall behind others significantly. They probably will be on par with others at least.

i agree they'll probably be on par, but that is a step back from most of this year isn't it. Andy Cowell knows what his people can to with 100kg/hr, fancy-ish fuel, maximum 18:1 compression ratio, only 5 sparks per ignition, no plasma, defined bore and all the zillion other restrictions, and he's got Lorenzo Sassi, so i bet he has a pretty good idea even if one or both of them have 3-D printed pistons

and yes Mattia can be right too: lots to do, but for a smaller and smaller bit of extra efficiency every time - it's why they all seem to be onboard with the freeze, as it's a lot of work for not much gain now. Convergence

[zibby43]

Binotto: "The Power Unit will be strongly revised, also from an architectural point of view, especially in the upper part, in the endothermic heads. Despite the stability of regulation since 2014, we think there is still much to do."

Andy Cowell (supposedly) telling that Ferrari will take a significant step back next year and Binotto, on the other hand, telling that there still is much to do power wise. Funny!

Merc had a slight advantage with respect to the endothermic/ICE portion of the engine early last season, so it's not strange to me that Ferrari are pushing for gains in this area, as Ferrari's strength the past two seasons has been attributed to energy recovery and better MGU-H use (excluding the whole "fuel flow" saga).

Or, Mattia's "much to do" comment could have to do with boosting efficiency. Last year, it was pretty clear that Mercedes was the class of the entire field with respect to fuel efficiency, which handed them a noticeable advantage in race trim. And that advantage remained throughout the course of the entire season, from flag to flag.

Furthermore, it has already been reported that Mercedes are conducting the first major overhaul of their ICE architecture since 2014. But I'll save the remainder of that discussion for the Merc thread.

[KiLLu12258]

Would be interesting to know what the expectation of Andy Cowell is based on. If Ferrari actually takes a significant step back PU wise in 2020, then there must be a big hurricane going on inside the team at the moment. Because with the incoming freezing of the PU development, they could as well forget about being competitive for an undefined period of time.

Coming from a team that won both championships with ease on an engine that is supposedly down some 40hp in Quali..
Ferrari proved they can produce a competitive car in 2017 without all the engine drama involved.
Any assumptions on how well a car will perform next season are far-fetched.

I agree with all.

It’s kinda impossible for a person outside of the team to predict such a thing like a “significant step back” because Ferrari have done major changes to their PU. So how’s anyone gonna know what power they will be able to bring on the track?
What’s more, even if we take off Ferrari’s excessive power advantage, I doubt they’ll fall behind others significantly. They probably will be on par with others at least.

if they are close to eachother its already a big step back for ferrari. Imagine where ferrari this season were without that big advantage pu wise, they wouldnt even fight with redbull for a long time in this season.

seems like next season will be really interessting. im already hyped.

[Just_a_fan]

Andy Cowell (supposedly) telling that Ferrari will take a significant step back next year and Binotto, on the other hand, telling that there still is much to do power wise. Funny!

As usual, the truth is somewhere in between those extremes.

Of course, Binotto might also mean that they have a lot to do to get back to where they were before the recent "intervention" by the FIA. The politics of F1 is almost as interesting as the technical at times.

[siskue2005]

I've had a few interesting chats with engineers involved in F1 and I think I have finally managed to piece together a coherent story (notice the use of he word 'story').

As I understand it has been known even since the previous season that the fuel flow meters could be tricked into reading low using various methods such as pre-conditioning the flow in a certain manner, creating thermal gradients across the sensor or aliasing the sampling signal. To prevent this, the FIA together with the sensor supplier (I was originally told this was sentronics as I've shared on the forum but I have also heard of GILL controls from a different source) developed a functionality that integrates the measurements to calculate the total mass flow over a race distance. This can then be compared to the fuel mass declared by the team at the start of the race and the fuel mass left in the car after the race and is an effective safeguard against any FFM tricks.

However, just before the Brazil race, Mercedes and their fuel systems expert (interestingly an ex-Ferrari frenchman) summoned the FIA and presented a few ways of also circumventing the FFM total mass safeguard. I am told they showed the FIA that a pressure release valve or a tuned orifice located after the sensor could be used to return fuel to the tank at part load (eg. when the fuel flow would have been below 100 kg/h) in effect 'counting' fuel that wasn't being burned to compensate for a FFM that was reading lower than the actual flow rate. FIA's response was to confiscate Ferrari's fuel system after the race. No one I've talked to could say what the outcome of FIA's investigation was but this certainly puts the Abu Dhabi fuel mass declaration error in a very different light.

I am also told that, while not directly accusing Ferrari of cheating, Andy Cowell declared in the last post-race debrief that they are expecting Ferrari to take a significant step back for 2020 and they now consider RBR Honda their main competitor for the next season.

Makes sense why they might have had undisclosed fuel
Andy Cowell must know something which the FIA and teams have not disclosed

[siskue2005]

Oh boy, imagine if this is what they have been doing since last year..

It is indirectly confirmed that is what they are doing

The TD at Austin,
then further investigations from FIA and
seizing parts at Brazil and
adding of second sensor for 2020
And mysterious loss of pace after Austin GP
Number of team personal indirectly saying things

So 99.99% it is what they are doing and most probably wont have similar performance next year

[godlameroso]

Oh boy, imagine if this is what they have been doing since last year..

It is indirectly confirmed that is what they are doing

The TD at Austin,
then further investigations from FIA and
seizing parts at Brazil and
adding of second sensor for 2020
And mysterious loss of pace after Austin GP
Number of team personal indirectly saying things

So 99.99% it is what they are doing and most probably wont have similar performance next year

It's hard to say if it will be down to strictly power unit or because they'll be piling on as much downforce as they can get away with?