Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[Jaisonas]

Let's see if others copy some of Honda layout philosophy. Top mounted radiators etc.

The top mount Rad solution seems to be RBR exclusive, probably born out of what Horner alluded to where RBR had direct involvement in PU design. Toro Rosso did not use the same layout, they retained the more "typical" cooling design, although I would not be surprised to see the 2020 Alpha Tauri car using the top mount idea as they have the entire rear crash structure, gearbox and the suspension at all four corners of this years RB15 for next year, and unless they are convinced of a different aero design path that affects cooling, I'd assume they'll follow suit there as well.

(Side note.. Bodes well for Alpha Tauri, they'll have a gearbox designed for the Honda PU from the get go, hopefully they will hassle Renault even more in 2020, more specifically Abiteboul)

As for PU development, there was one outlet that claimed a Toro Rosso engineer told them Honda had one Spec 5 PU ready and waiting in RBR's garage at Abu Dhabi as a "just in case" if there was a crash requiring a PU change. He was glad it wasn't necessary but also mentioned it "was a shame we couldn't see that one in action".
(Please note, I can no longer find the article to link, so it's potential smoke)

If that is true, we know Spec 5 was ready, possibly impressive as well and if the Spec 1 RA620 is a further refinement, we can be hopeful it'll be a good step over what we've seen on track.

Seems both STR and RB had top mounted radiators with different ducting solutions according to the article.
https://f1-gate.com/honda/f1_54102.html

The RBR involvement is definitely producing results. It shows they took advantage of the low COG of the PU to free up the side pods, which had a direct benefit for the diffuser. Red Bull really now enjoys works status with a PU supplier that listens and values their input and Honda has the respect and trust to operate with pride and determination. Tanabe's summary of 2019 was one of relief and motivation. The issues faced during the last race were unfortunate but served as a lesson and motivation for next year that such issues won't be repeated.
He was also particularly pleased that Toro Rosso shared the podium with Red Bull after a run of poor results since the second half of last year. Hopefully Alpha Tauri will have a stronger package close to the performance of RBR.

Honda has had a top mounted rad at least since the 2018 toro rosso

[langedweil]

Delightfully this forum has turned back to it's 'normal-mode' with a lot of interesting pu-abacadabra !!
I won't mingle, I understand my Hilux and a Zündapp .. but that's it.
Keep it up !
It's only eight more wks before it kinda kicks off again .. which is doable

[Tommy Cookers]

....if we assume the throttles remained open at a certain percentage (this could be 30%, it could be 100%) while ignition is cancelled, how would one get back onto power smoothly? If the most severe case is imagined, and the throttle/s is 100% open and combustion restarts, it'd be like a nasty clutch dump at full throttle.

the clutch pressure (torque transmission) is varied according to real-time need over about 8 milliseconds at every gearshift
so that nothing like a 'nasty clutch dump at full throttle' need exist in F1

[saviour stivala]

What have the clutch to do with it? why do the clutch have to be used?

[63l8qrrfy6]

It's not fully disengaged, just slightly relaxed to limit the torque spike going to the driveline during shifts.

[saviour stivala]

Which means ‘slipping clutch’ ‘slipping the clutch’ my opinion is rediclulious to even contaplate.

[PlatinumZealot]

....if we assume the throttles remained open at a certain percentage (this could be 30%, it could be 100%) while ignition is cancelled, how would one get back onto power smoothly? If the most severe case is imagined, and the throttle/s is 100% open and combustion restarts, it'd be like a nasty clutch dump at full throttle.

the clutch pressure (torque transmission) is varied according to real-time need over about 8 milliseconds at every gearshift
so that nothing like a 'nasty clutch dump at full throttle' need exist in F1

I am not an expert on this topic, but Mercedes (or was it Williams) reported that they "ripped through the gears" with hard clutch dumps in qualifying, but the practice seized when the gearbox season limits got tighter.

[PlatinumZealot]

Those BMW v10s are junk, their rings sucked the big one. I've torn enough of those engines down and lo and behold the oil control rings get stuck because the CPUs run rich as hell and leave carbon deposits all up in the ring grooves, especially with age.

In slow speed diesel engine power generationation we used to measure the oil consumption in grams per kilowatt hour. You gonna turn up the engine? You turn up the cylinder oil dosage by that prescribed g/kWhr to lubricate and cool the rings accordingly.
Fortunately with those types of engines the oil for the cylinders was independent and controllable from a control panel. The crankcase all is isolated from the cylinders and cooled the pistons in a closed loop via the connecting rod.

Anyway.... Just saying you have to measure oil consumption with power times time (energy) of the engine to relate to how much it burns to sustain the cylinders. Mileage has nothing to do with it... You could run low power for hundreds of miles and barely consume any oil.

Does not the 'job' of the oil also have a huge effect on this? A road car knows it will need 10k between changes so some control of ring loss has to be in the design, while in a F1 (or any race) engine all is all about efficient lube and cooling and if it slips past the rings, too bad as it has a reserve tank and will be drained after the session anyway.

Just saying that the oil consumption should be compared per kilo-watt hour, since oil consumption goes up with the engine load. (more pressure on the rings and more heat requires and consumes more oil).

[Snorked]

[Snorked]

Motorfan's Motorsport technology magazine released today and no official images of the 2019 engine, or interview with Honda engineers, so I think It's safe to assume Honda won't be showing their engine off in public anymore

Low quality shots from the magazine full page preview

[foneFanatiq]

Yeah I think you’re right.. last year they posted very nice high res pictures on Twitter for Christmas. This year nothing. I was looking forward to them.

Motorfan's Motorsport technology magazine released today and no official images of the 2019 engine, or interview with Honda engineers, so I think It's safe to assume Honda won't be showing their engine off in public anymore

Low quality shots from the magazine full page preview

https://abload.de/img/screenshot_chrome_201mej75.png

[PlatinumZealot]

Yeah I think you’re right.. last year they posted very nice high res pictures on Twitter for Christmas. This year nothing. I was looking forward to them.

Motorfan's Motorsport technology magazine released today and no official images of the 2019 engine, or interview with Honda engineers, so I think It's safe to assume Honda won't be showing their engine off in public anymore

Low quality shots from the magazine full page preview

https://abload.de/img/screenshot_chrome_201mej75.png

Their engine is now state of the art.

[bigblue]

But is there really much of note (or different to last year) to see externally, wouldn't all the secrets be on the inside and in software ?

[bjpower]

But is there really much of note (or different to last year) to see externally, wouldn't all the secrets be on the inside and in software ?

I remember newly saying at the start of the season that if they changed the layout of the engine they could get a few tenths more out of the car. I'm not sure if that new layout was implemented during the season or not.

[carisi2k]

Skip-fire can be a very progressive torque control. There are a large number of combinations of fired and skipped cycles which can achieve any torque value from 0 - 100% while also ensuring all cylinders are carrying an equal share of the load. Some very simple examples would be:
- Fire 6, Skip 1. Reduces torque to 86%
- Fire 4, Skip 1. Reduces torque to 80%
- Fire 3, Skip 1, Fire 2 Skip 1. Reduces torque to 71%
- Fire 2, Skip 1, Fire 1 Skip 1. Reduces torque to 60%
- Fire 1, Skip 2, Fire 1 Skip 1. Reduces torque to 40%
- Fire 1, Skip 3, Fire 1 Skip 2. Reduces torque to 28%
- Fire 1, Skip 4, Reduces torque to 20%
- Fire 1, Skip 6, Reduces torque to 14%

Would this be seen as a form of traction control and therefore illegal?