Ideas to cut costs in F1

[axle]

I think they should all run on LS7 V8's Cheap as chips and sound great

[West]

I think they should all run on LS7 V8's Cheap as chips and sound great

You'll piss off 90% of the fans who want HP per liter.

I'll agree with you though that in a C6R, they are the best sounding car, because they drown out every other car.

...

A good way to cut costs is to spec a lot of items, like the engines and aerodynamics, but it wouldn't be F1.

[ESPImperium]

Id say standardise quite a bit.

* Fuel tanks to only have a maximum of 50KG fuel in them meaning that they will have to pit for 3 stops a race going on the premise that 2.4KG of fuel is used per race.

* Braking systems to be standardised, the only things that can be changed are the calipers and discs to suit the drivers and or conditions.

* Limit each driver to 3 sets of dry tyres each race week end, 2 sets super hard and one set of medium hards, each set should be used at least 1 time each session. The super hard tyre will have roughly a 1 second deficit (+/- .175 of a second) to the Medium Hard tyre. Wet conditions will see drivers have 2 sets of inters and 2 sets of wet/monsoon tyres for the week end.

* One the theme of tyres, ditch all the tyre warmers and make the drivers heat the tyres up driving them, just like a normal road car.

* Engine cooling should be made standard, whith sidepods having a maximum of 25cm2 of an opening to standardised radiators.

* Ditch all electronic engine maps and differential settings for drivers to use. All the steering wheel should have is a Linmiter/Radio/KERS Boost and Drinks button, as well as the FIA LEDs for allerting drivers to trouble. If anything that was on a wheel should need changed, this can be done at a pit stop, VIA person inserting new commands via a laptop (and this is done after the wheels are attached, thust incuring time penalty)

* Gear changes should be done via a sequencial gear stick on the right of the momocoque. Reverse gear is accessed via a button on the monocoque behing the steering wheel. The only other hand controls on a steering wheel should be a hand clutch for the start and to prevent stalls when spinning.

* Pit stops should be carried out by no more than 10 people. And wheels can only go on after the car is has had its fuel put in.

* Keep engines on the current standard line, with 2011 going to 5 races for a engine and gearbox package.

* No aero development should be carried out after the 50% race, taking the German GP as the aero development ban untill the after the last GP of they year.

* Works teams (Ferarri/Toyota/BMW Sauber/Honda/Renault/McLaren-Merc) should have to support at least 1 other private constructor (Williams/Red Bull/Toro Rosso/FIF1) to ensure a a 24 car grid. And this will be done for a total cost of no more than $10 Million US. Support constitutes Engine with at leats 1 other part of the car such as Gear Box, Suspension, KERS and Chassis development.

* Teams should be limited to no more than 3 big rigs at any GP. That excludes any motorhomes and or VIP areas, that dont hold any parts/equiptment for use at any GP.

[Belatti]

That graph is shocking, Ciro.

What graph?



I imagine it was a pareto graph, where using the 70% rule you could see that by getting cheap engines you get a much lower budget, leaving the rest (chassis, team, drivers) untouched.

So, wanna cheap engines?

Why change layout, engine config, technology if Cosworth was already doing it?

I´ll repost this article that no one ever commented here:

Here it is an article in Spanish about Cosworth.

http://8000vueltas.com/2007/08/31/el-ul ... e-cosworth

I will translate some facts and figures:

- In 2005 each manufacturer spent arround 200 mill USD in their engine programs, while Cosworth total turnover (including F1, IRL, Champ Car and WRC) was arround that.
- Even spending that few, they reach 915CV at the end of 2005 with the V10 in red bull.
- The difference between Cosworth and the others was that Cosworth recycled gears, camshafts, carbon elements, rods, valves and other stuff. Only blocks, pistons and rings, bearings and cyl head was thrown away no matter how they where.
- In 2006 Cosworth only had 1 engine failure (Rosberg - Malaysia) and the 2.4 V8 could run more than 1/3 of the race using its full 20,000 rpm. The power was 750HP that traduced to a V10 would be almost 940HP, impressive for 1 year of development in such a little company.

I know what you all are thinking by now but the article already mentions it: its ironical that in the age of cust cutting the most cost efficient company was left over...

In resume: the three didn´t let them see the forest

[Ciro Pabón]

Which "three" don't allow you to see the forest? Ferrari, McLaren and BMW?

[Belatti]

Which "three" don't allow you to see the forest? Ferrari, McLaren and BMW?

That are some of the species, but there are others, in their cientefic names:

- Ferrariae Mustsupremus
- Mercedea Beryliumae
- Bavariamotorewerkea Terceris
- Renaultys Eficienthys
- Toyotea Desperdicyathum
- Hondya Ultymathum

[modbaraban]

LOL, nice one

Although I didn't get why the the maccas are Beryliumae and not Mercedea Calamiargenti or something?

[Ciro Pabón]

Calami argenti... mmmmm. Good name.

I just stumbled upon this the other day:

The Latins had a word for it

Some examples:

Non calor sed umor est qui nobis incommodat.
It's not the heat, it's the humidity.

Di! Ecce hora! Uxor mea me necabit!
God, look at the time! My wife will kill me!

I would add:

Vexillum machina propositio est plurrimi bardus res ego umquam auditus. Vero, is exsisto solus videlicet solutio ut sumptus talea.
The standard engines proposal is the most stupid thing I have ever heard. However, it could be the only clear solution to cost cutting.

Apparatus Cosworthi non contendere per quadriga fabrica. In terminus, non vel Rutilus Bovis Team volo lemma.
Cosworth engines could not compete with car manufacturers. In the end, not even Scuderia Toro Rosso wanted them.

[modbaraban]

That are some of the species, but there are others, in their cientefic names:..........

What's Hindi for McLaren-Mercedes, btw?

And thanks for the link, Ciro. =D>

[xpensive]

Ciro, somebody should install a losing-the-thread-overload-fuse, or something on this forum, no?

[Conceptual]

The pinnacle of any sport will always come with a heavy pricetag. Afterall, quality is the most expensive product on the planet.

If you want to cut costs, get rid of the Agents that drive up the cost of personell, as well as any other middle-man fat that can be trimmed.

I would rather see them get rid of all of the leeches before they weighed the fish, ya know?

[donskar]

I'm not against cutting costs. I am against the usual FIA smoke-and-mirror. By that I mean that this cost-cutting crusade can be seen as a smoke screen, a red herring -- a distraction from another equally important point -- profit sharing. The 2-headed BernieMax monster charges far too much to hold a race - and keeps far too much of the proceeds.

We see now that there is a very real danger of the German GP becoming history:

Kafitz declared in the 'Deutche Presse-Agentur dpa': "We cannot afford that. Formula one will disappear not just from Hockenheim but from Germany as a whole. Then it will only be run in Arab countries."

F1 is being driven out of Europe and North America. Why? Because the enormous money generated by F1 is NOT equitably distributed. Give the teams a reasonable cut of ALL of the profits - 75%? certainly at least 50% - and there would be less need to cut costs. The teams deserve the lion's share of the total bag of profits. And the race promoters deserve a pricing structure that allows them to at least survive without governement handouts.

Cost cutting? OK. Sign up "Official Providers of F1." If Virgin, for example were "Offical Air Line of F1," they would barter free (or reduced) fares/shipping in exchange for a LOT of publicity. An "Official F1 Hotel" could help with other travel expenses. Other such deals could be worked out by any smart businessman.

Think outside the box before surrendering to techno idiots and Machiavellian manipulators. (My apologies to Machiavelli for comparing him to the offal currently ruining F1.)

[timbo]

F1 is being driven out of Europe and North America. Why? Because the enormous money generated by F1 is NOT equitably distributed. Give the teams a reasonable cut of ALL of the profits - 75%? certainly at least 50% - and there would be less need to cut costs. The teams deserve the lion's share of the total bag of profits. And the race promoters deserve a pricing structure that allows them to at least survive without governement handouts.

That's what I want to know - how much from TV and track revenues goes to the eams, and how much to Bernie and FIA. Because I sence something very wrong there.

Cost cutting? OK. Sign up "Official Providers of F1." If Virgin, for example were "Offical Air Line of F1," they would barter free (or reduced) fares/shipping in exchange for a LOT of publicity. An "Official F1 Hotel" could help with other travel expenses. Other such deals could be worked out by any smart businessman.

They already started - LG is official mobile partnet of F1. But what for?...

[xpensive]

I belive that donskar is perfectly right, the greed for government money subsidies, because that's what it is all about, has corrupted F1 to absurdum.

We are facing a situation where most races will held in Asian dictatorship-economies where Bernie is paid whatever he asks. Then the races has to be held at night-time to attract any sizeable audience in Europe, flooded with light from multi-MW generators all powered by fossile-fuels. A green F1, yeah right!

If FOTA can't see where this is going and do something about it, I can only hope that the manufacturers revive their threat and sets up an independent series.

[timbo]

I had a thought when answering in other thread. Look at technology FIA banned for engine - variable valve timing, variable intake/exhaust geometry, probably other things. In a days of RPM restrictions maybe if they let teams use that technology once again it would be easier (and cheaper) for them to get the same level of performance. I think the main reason why engines are SOOOO expencive is that you have to squeeze ultra performance out of very mediocre (by todays standarts) technology.