Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

[Just_a_fan]

Of course the issue with sea level rise is that many of the World's economic power centres are close to sea level. Think of the US seaboards (and the political and other power that inhabits those), the UK (London's financial markets are central to the World economy), EU ports, the Asian powerhouses - they're all at risk of flooding. And even if they don't flood directly, rising sea level makes the one off storms more frequent in effect.

[strad]

Just how much are you talking about?
""""“Sea level has been overall rising since the last ice age, with some ups and downs. Sea level has been rising for the past 200 years….Humans are not going to stop sea level rise on the time scale of a few centuries by ceasing emissions of CO2.”""""" Judith Curry Former chair of the School of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences at the Georgia Institute of Technology.
.
I don't see it as a urgent worry.

[strad]

Should probably get back to the topic.

[Greg Locock]

I just learned the following fun fact which might put all the whining about sea level rising into perspective. At the moment it is rising at around 0.3m per century

In the last hundred years Tokyo has sunk by 4.5m
Osaka 3.5m
Taipei 2.5m
Jakarta 4m
Bangkok 2m

The reasons are many, primarily groundwater extraction and the weight of the buildings compressing soft soil (that surprised me).

So various SE Asian cities situated by the sea have been able to cope with thousands of years of sea level rise compressed into a century. Sadly first world whiners can't imagine how.

[Andres125sx]

I agree that adding insulation is one of the best way to lower your heating bill etc. However I also know people who live paycheck to paycheck and just plain can't afford the outlay of even the modest cost of adding insulation.

Nobody is going to force anyone to isulate his current house Strad, real state rules are never retroactive

But politicians could have legislated about better isulation for new buildings decades ago, so today heating demands would be a small fraction that they are. But they didn´t do it decades ago, they didn´t do it past year, and sadly they won´t do it next year either, even when it´s free (no added cost) and improve people´s lifes. Meanwhile they criminalize people who can´t purchase a new car and put limits to their freedom in their own citi

The worst part is people applaude this behaviour from politicians, I know people can´t know all this if none tell them, but when you know it it´s so frustrating seeing how politicians ignore our needs to keep happy big companies

And after our many discussions, and after thoroughly researching the subject I have to still think the IPCC is just pushing propaganda. Living and working on the water I have not seen 1 inch of higher water levels along our coast.
The problem is that they, the IPCC, put out what is clearly a prediction and when called on it not coming to fruition they only then fall back on the excuse that what they said/predicted was only one of many possible "scenarios".

You alwasy focus on IPCC predictions to keep negating CC Strad... What about all those reports all around the world, from all sort of scientists, stating climate change is real and its effects are easily visible for anyone who have eyes to look at it? I guess since you can´t attack these you just focus on IPCC predictions

Arctic and antarctic ice, sea levels, sea temperature, sea PH (these two are way more important than sea level), sea currents, sea reefs and fishes, forests, animals, atmosphere composition and most importantly timescale of its composition changes... no matter what field you look at, if you look at it with some interest, you´ll find evidences and serious reports stating how real and worrying is CC. Just choose a field and look for reports from knownledgable people, it´s easy if you have some real interest

[J.A.W.]

Any member here currently operating a electric car in sub-zero ambient temps?

How much does running the heater effectively - affect the endurance/range - & at night, too?

[Just_a_fan]

I don't have an EV, but I'm told by a couple that do that the heating side of things isn't really an issue. Most pre-heat whilst the car is plugged in so when they get in first thing in the morning, the car is already warm. Then it's just "topping up" the heat as required and that is done using heat pump technology - so you get multiple Wh for each electrical Wh used. Range is not really any worse than in summer when they might be using air con, for example.

The new EU WLTP real life tests for cars pick this sort of thing up now too because they take account of temperature, which makes the quoted figures in adverts more believable.

Oh, and lights are moving towards LED systems so the energy use there is much lower than traditional systems.

[Tommy Cookers]

Of course the issue with sea level rise is that many of the World's economic power centres are close to sea level. Think of the US seaboards (and the political and other power that inhabits those), the UK (London's financial markets are central to the World economy), EU ports, the Asian powerhouses - they're all at risk of flooding. And even if they don't flood directly, rising sea level makes the one off storms more frequent in effect.

London has risen relative to sea level for the last 70 years
because after 2000 years it ceased water abstraction from under its own feet
risen though S England is being pushed down by Scotland's continuing rise after the ice cover melt only 12000 years ago

the famous Thames Flood Barrier ? ...... wasn't necessary ......
(certainly if natural recovery had been supplemented by pumping water back under London as a was publicly advocated)
and so hasn't saved London from any flooding from the sea
(amusingly it's been used artificially to hold back safe amounts of sea water to make room for rainwater flooding from inland)
official TFB policy is that no new TFB policy is needed before 2050
(maybe the sudden interest in the Thwaites glacier will change this)

btw yesterday Prof Holgate of the RCPCH(child health) declared the air pollution issue is far greater in the home than outside

it's nice we agree that vehicle electrification and heating etc electrification may be in competition for renewable electricity

[strad]

Nobody is going to force anyone to isulate his current house Strad, real state rules are never retroactive

OH yes they are. They want to retro fit all houses and commercial buildings.

What about all those reports all around the world, from all sort of scientists, stating climate change is real and its effects are easily visible for anyone who have eyes to look at it?

And you keep trotting out pawns of the IPCC. While I bring testimony from top meteorologists and climate scientists from top institutions that in many cases have left the UN counsel because of there poor scientific standards and practices, some of whom were originally their top supporters. You fail, like the IPCC to look at or allow anyone to look at any evidence or research that does not comply with your or their stated opinions.
They as you ought to know, won't even allow in any discussion let alone any scientist that does not pre agree to agree with them. Pretty one sided and hardly scientific. Just as saying the science is settled is totally opposed to scientific research.
You knew from my previous posts and discussions that the things you have said would once again draw me into this morass.
Now can we return to electric vehicles?

[nzjrs]

Nobody is going to force anyone to isulate his current house Strad, real state rules are never retroactive

OH yes they are. They want to retro fit all houses and commercial buildings.

What about all those reports all around the world, from all sort of scientists, stating climate change is real and its effects are easily visible for anyone who have eyes to look at it?

And you keep trotting out pawns of the IPCC. While I bring testimony from top meteorologists and climate scientists from top institutions that in many cases have left the UN counsel because of there poor scientific standards and practices, some of whom were originally their top supporters. You fail, like the IPCC to look at or allow anyone to look at any evidence or research that does not comply with your or their stated opinions.
They as you ought to know, won't even allow in any discussion let alone any scientist that does not pre agree to agree with them. Pretty one sided and hardly scientific. Just as saying the science is settled is totally opposed to scientific research.
You knew from my previous posts and discussions that the things you have said would once again draw me into this morass.
Now can we return to electric vehicles?

Just so we are clear, where are you on path that i take no pleasure in watching so many people follow...

"it's not happening" -> "its happening but not our fault" -> "it's happening and partly our fault but there is nothing we can do about it" -> "its happening but won't be bad" -> "OK maybe if those pesky greenies had argued better I would have believed them earlier, it's too late now"

[strad]

Back on topic... The other day I ran across an article on this much better electric car battery and I would swear it was Lithium Oxygen. However I can't re-find that article but did find this.

A car has managed to drive 1,100 miles on a single battery charge. The secret to this super range is a type of battery technology called aluminum-air that uses oxygen from the air to fill its cathode. This makes it far lighter than liquid filled lithium-ion batteries to give car a far greater range.

What do we know about either of these batteries?

[djos]

Back on topic... The other day I ran across an article on this much better electric car battery and I would swear it was Lithium Oxygen. However I can't re-find that article but did find this.

A car has managed to drive 1,100 miles on a single battery charge. The secret to this super range is a type of battery technology called aluminum-air that uses oxygen from the air to fill its cathode. This makes it far lighter than liquid filled lithium-ion batteries to give car a far greater range.

What do we know about either of these batteries?

Iirc, it's another 5+ years away battery tech that cant yet be mass produced.

[djos]

Looks like Home Storage is providing an average pay-for-itself period of ~7 years now in Australia due to our high power prices. With a 15,000% increase (from a low base) this sort of installation is certainly going to help maintain grid stability and provide time-shifting for residential solar systems.

https://www.domain.com.au/news/the-firs ... 5&ref=pos1

[Andres125sx]

Nobody is going to force anyone to isulate his current house Strad, real state rules are never retroactive

OH yes they are. They want to retro fit all houses and commercial buildings.

Who´s They Strad?

And you keep trotting out pawns of the IPCC. While I bring testimony from top meteorologists and climate scientists from top institutions that in many cases have left the UN counsel because of there poor scientific standards and practices, some of whom were originally their top supporters. You fail, like the IPCC to look at or allow anyone to look at any evidence or research that does not comply with your or their stated opinions.
They as you ought to know, won't even allow in any discussion let alone any scientist that does not pre agree to agree with them. Pretty one sided and hardly scientific. Just as saying the science is settled is totally opposed to scientific research.
You knew from my previous posts and discussions that the things you have said would once again draw me into this morass.
Now can we return to electric vehicles?

Sorry but you´re so wrong... I don´t care about IPCC at all, contrary to you I´m not obsessed with them, I´ve read enough scientific reports from all possible fields to not depend on IPCC reports. Actually I have not even read theirs so sorry, but you´re completely wrong

Your strategy is quite old Strad, look for a fault on your oponent, and once you´ve find it focus on that and ignore all the rest, even if all the rest is true and accurate, focus on any minor fail and use it to discredit them. Old strategy

Do you have any more argument apart from IPCC can´t predict future climate changes with decimal accuracy?

[Andres125sx]

Back on topic... The other day I ran across an article on this much better electric car battery and I would swear it was Lithium Oxygen. However I can't re-find that article but did find this.

A car has managed to drive 1,100 miles on a single battery charge. The secret to this super range is a type of battery technology called aluminum-air that uses oxygen from the air to fill its cathode. This makes it far lighter than liquid filled lithium-ion batteries to give car a far greater range.

What do we know about either of these batteries?

Lithium oxygen and lithium sulfur are supposedly two new technologies wich will improve lithium ion by a 2x or even 4x factor... But that's what I read around 6 years back and still waiting, so I've become a bit skeptical about these

If they're testing aluminium air in real world conditions probably that technology has proved to be better than LiO and LiS