Would a sidepod-less car be realistic?

[DRCorsa]

It's quite some time that i have come up with this design in mind.
I tried to make a hand sketch. I am sorry for the bad quality of the sketch.
The idea is to design a car with no side pods at all, use the side crash structures as a wing to direct airflow to the rear and use a large radiator on the rear of the car incorporating all the other ancillary radiators.
Radiator inlets will be above the driver's head, left and right, receiving plenty of clean airflow.
I know that this will raise the CoG quite much but just think what the benefits will be to the flow to the rear of the car.
What do you think?

[bucker]

I think that from 2021 shape of the car will be much more restricted, and there will be only few aero things on the car to change. I do not think that such a radical sidepod will be legal from 2021.
Ferrari F92A long time ago had raised sidepods, so there was free space under them and nice airflow to the diffusor. If i remember correctly, extra weight for that design was to much compared to the better airflow flow from new design.

[Dr. Acula]

Well, one issue i see is the weight distribution. The weight distribution is stated in the rules with only a few kg to play with without going over the minimum weight. Radiatiors are generally on the heavy side. So if you put them further to the back where already the PU und gearbox is located, the other heavy staff, it will be a real challenge to balance that out without going purposely overweight.

Another problem i would think is the radiator outlet air, which is turbulent. It will hit the rear Wing and makes it significantly less effective.

Also for some components the radiator would be really inconveniently placed. For instance the ES would need way longer coolant hoses than with the tradional setup.

Just my two cents.

[Big Tea]

Would that affect the side impact regs?

[Zynerji]

Im more interested in the engine CoG and minimum weight rules...

If you did something like moving to a heatpipe->fin type valve cover, and ducted air through that, could you effectively remove the liquid loop? In a super-technical description, it would still be "liquid cooled", and be part of the engine, so could be counted towards the minimum engine weight, and would allow lowering the current CoG additive components as you would be adding a kilo or 2 up top.

Might be the play with the 2 strokes that are coming instead tho...

[Rodak]

So why not just scale up a Swift FF2000 a bit? A joke, a joke!

[jjn9128]

Realistically the rules make it difficult - two rules in particular being the R75 volume, which means the engine air intake can only be up to 250mm wide, and where openings are permitted in the bodywork. I think the cooling requirements then make it tricky to move all the coolers up above the engine - if you can then all that bulk is ahead of the rear wing, so any gains you're making for the diffuser are having the opposite effect higher up. Then there's the other issues of COG height mentioned - every mm is ~0.01s of laptime lost.

F1 design is compromise, far extremes tend not to be optimal.

[w1Y]

Just had to say I had the exact same thought in my head 2 days ago and the picture I had in me head was pretty much exactly what you have drawn

[DRCorsa]

Seems that Mercedes is following this route, 2 years after my post?

[izzy]

Seems that Mercedes is following this route, 2 years after my post?

awesome

Hope it's at least mainly true. I was reading something a while ago about Mercedes' radiator designs, methods.

[theblackangus]

Seems that Mercedes is following this route, 2 years after my post?

Mercedes clearly has a sidepod, just saying, its small but thats not that same as no-sidepod.

[LM10]

Seems that Mercedes is following this route, 2 years after my post?

Mercedes clearly has a sidepod, just saying, its small but thats not that same as no-sidepod.

He is referring to the reports on corriere.it about Mercedes bringing a car without sidepods. Just some (wild) speculation. We'll see what's what in a couple of days.

[theblackangus]

Seems that Mercedes is following this route, 2 years after my post?

Mercedes clearly has a sidepod, just saying, its small but thats not that same as no-sidepod.

He is referring to the reports on corriere.it about Mercedes bringing a car without sidepods. Just some (wild) speculation. We'll see what's what in a couple of days.

Ahh had not seen any rumors...
That would be some crazy stuff. The rules don't specifically state there has to be a side pod?
Wouldn't that make the side impact structures useless?

[izzy]

Mercedes clearly has a sidepod, just saying, its small but thats not that same as no-sidepod.

He is referring to the reports on corriere.it about Mercedes bringing a car without sidepods. Just some (wild) speculation. We'll see what's what in a couple of days.

Ahh had not seen any rumors...
That would be some crazy stuff. The rules don't specifically state there has to be a side pod?
Wouldn't that make the side impact structures useless?

The safety structure can be more like two wings I think, they're basically two tubes one upper and one lower. Plus an anti-intrusion panel. Also Mercedes have kept checking with FIA all the time, and after all a hollow sidepod is a duct onto the beam wing! But yes corriere seem quite excited about it.

[theblackangus]

He is referring to the reports on corriere.it about Mercedes bringing a car without sidepods. Just some (wild) speculation. We'll see what's what in a couple of days.

Ahh had not seen any rumors...
That would be some crazy stuff. The rules don't specifically state there has to be a side pod?
Wouldn't that make the side impact structures useless?

The safety structure can be more like two wings I think, they're basically two tubes one upper and one lower. Plus an anti-intrusion panel. Also Mercedes have kept checking with FIA all the time, and after all a hollow sidepod is a duct onto the beam wing! But yes corriere seem quite excited about it.

I understand what the side impact structures actually look like, but w/o something spanning them the nose of a car would directly contact the tub on 1st impact most likely, which seems like a bad scenario.

Is Merc supposed to show up at the next test with this new design or the 1st race?