Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

[AJI]

The first manufacturer that offers a BEV that you never have to physically plug-in will mop the floor with every other manufacturer.

Plugging in an EV every now and then is really not that much work. I've done it for the last 5+ years. Pop the charge hatch open, stretch my hand out for the plug on the wall, plug it in. Takes like 5 seconds or so. The efficiency of a simple plug is hard to beat. Inductive charging comes with a few disadvantages, like loss of energy, more weight, more complexity, higher price etc. And you still need a charge port for all those situations when you park somewhere without a charge pad. It's a solution looking for a problem.
It's actually much more hassle to get the groceries out of the car. Or the dog, or the kids or almost any other things. Finding my keys and opening the front door to my house is more work than plugging in the EV.

The entire modern world is a 'solution looking for a problem'.
I stand by my claim that the first manufacturer to market an EV that plugs itself in to charge will dominate. How many anecdotes are there of tech in cars that we don't really need but is now ubiquitous?
Do we need an automatic transmission?
Do we need auto sensing headlights, or wipers, or rear view mirrors?
Do we need power windows?
Do we need cruise control (let alone adaptive cruise control)?
You see where I'm going here. An electric starter motor used to be an extravagance...

[Just_a_fan]

Do we need an automatic transmission?
Do we need auto sensing headlights, or wipers, or rear view mirrors?
Do we need power windows?
Do we need cruise control (let alone adaptive cruise control)?

Yes, love auto these days especially when in heavy traffic.
No, no, yes. I hate auto lights and auto wipers. Self dipping rear view mirrors are great.
No. With climate control, opening of the windows is a rare event and so could be done manually.
Cruise control is ok. Adaptive cruise control is brilliant. Had it on my previous Range Rover Sport, don't have it on this one and I miss it when on long motorway trips.

Sorry, that wasn't the answer you were looking for was it?

In reality, most people don't need a four/five seat personal transport device for most of their journeys. Most journeys are short and single occupancy. A bike would be better.

[AJI]

...most people don't need a four/five seat personal transport device...

Most people don't need anything more than an excellent public transport system.
What we're getting is a reinterpretation of the most self indulgent personal transport system ever invented. On the bright side though, now that vehicle can finally accelerate as fast as a super car and can perform a 'tank turn'. I'm not sure how we ever lived without those options!

[nzjrs]

...most people don't need a four/five seat personal transport device...

Most people don't need anything more than an excellent public transport system.
What we're getting is a reinterpretation of the most self indulgent personal transport system ever invented. On the bright side though, now that vehicle can finally accelerate as fast as a super car and can perform a 'tank turn'. I'm not sure how we ever lived without those options!

You aren't wrong.

I did laugh at the poster earlier "imagine if it had wireless charging, that's so cool". Two steps forward, one negative efficiency multiplier step back. Jevons-paradox (or alike) strikes again!

[strad]

Do we need an automatic transmission?
Do we need auto sensing headlights, or wipers, or rear view mirrors?
Do we need power windows?
Do we need cruise control (let alone adaptive cruise control)?

.
IMO nobody needs any of those things.
We have become too damn lazy.

[Just_a_fan]

Do we need an automatic transmission?
Do we need auto sensing headlights, or wipers, or rear view mirrors?
Do we need power windows?
Do we need cruise control (let alone adaptive cruise control)?

.
IMO nobody needs any of those things.
We have become too damn lazy.

By extension, we don't need cars. Public transport has been around longer etc. but we choose personal transport for a variety of reasons that almost never show that we need it.

[SmallSoldier]

Do we need an automatic transmission?
Do we need auto sensing headlights, or wipers, or rear view mirrors?
Do we need power windows?
Do we need cruise control (let alone adaptive cruise control)?

.
IMO nobody needs any of those things.
We have become too damn lazy.

If it’s a matter of “need”... We don’t need cars, period...


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[izzy]

I did laugh at the poster earlier "imagine if it had wireless charging, that's so cool". Two steps forward, one negative efficiency multiplier step back. Jevons-paradox (or alike) strikes again!

istr somebody having to have an ICE with living in a block of apartments, but it turns out Qualcomm have been working on it, how lucky is that!

tho wait, it'll mean more electricity being used

[strad]

Because we quit working within walking distance we NEED cars. Work is often 30 or more miles from home and not always served by mass transit and certainly not always on your schedule or drops you a few miles from work.
Of course we could ride a horse and leave home a few hours earlier... but then the GW cats would complain cause horses pass gas.

[Brake Horse Power]

...most people don't need a four/five seat personal transport device...

Most people don't need anything more than an excellent public transport system.
What we're getting is a reinterpretation of the most self indulgent personal transport system ever invented. On the bright side though, now that vehicle can finally accelerate as fast as a super car and can perform a 'tank turn'. I'm not sure how we ever lived without those options!

I agree, to a certain extent BEV has features which make it cool to have one. But creating pickup trucks that do 0-60mile in 3 seconds is just silly. Now Nikola announced one as well.. I think they are missing their point of existence there

[izzy]

I agree, to a certain extent BEV has features which make it cool to have one. But creating pickup trucks that do 0-60mile in 3 seconds is just silly. Now Nikola announced one as well.. I think they are missing their point of existence there

it's silly isn't it, but i suppose it's branding for EV's, which tbf they probably needed after Renault called theirs 'Zoe' and Nissan called theirs 'Leaf'

Now EV's can be super hard and win power contests yay, so even the manliest hero can be seen in one

Meanwhile my hero Elon has been busy as usual making them more viable:

Tesla’s Giga New York facility is ramping production to meet Elon Musk’s goals for the company’s energy business. Tesla started ramping solar roof sales and installations in 2019 when Q4’s 54 MW deployment showed a 26% jump from the previous quarter’s 43 MW.

In a series of recent tweets, the CEO shared some of his appreciation for the company’s workers involved in the ongoing rollout of the Solarglass Roof tiles. The third-generation tiles are Tesla’s flagship residential solar product, and they have the potential to disrupt the energy sector in a manner similar to how the Model 3 disrupted the midsize sedan market.

According to Musk, he believes that eventually, the Solarglass Roof would be a matter of choice for consumers between having a live roof that generates power and a conventional roof that only serves a single purpose. Tesla may have a revolutionary product in the Solarglass Roof, and if it were to succeed, it will allow Tesla Energy to grow at a pace that matches or even exceeds that of the company’s electric car business.

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-giga-ne ... roof-ramp/

[Andres125sx]

...most people don't need a four/five seat personal transport device...

Most people don't need anything more than an excellent public transport system.
What we're getting is a reinterpretation of the most self indulgent personal transport system ever invented. On the bright side though, now that vehicle can finally accelerate as fast as a super car and can perform a 'tank turn'. I'm not sure how we ever lived without those options!

I agree, to a certain extent BEV has features which make it cool to have one. But creating pickup trucks that do 0-60mile in 3 seconds is just silly. Now Nikola announced one as well.. I think they are missing their point of existence there

Or maybe you missed my previous post... Ultra powerful EVs are just a consequence of adding a huge battery to improve range as people is asking for. Not silly, just what people is asking as once you have a huge battery only few kg more of a bit bigger motor and you have hypercar perfomance almost for free.

Very different to ICE cars where for same result they need to use an engine wich weight a lot more kg, is a lot more expensive both to be manufactured and also to operate, but even so that didn´t stop manufacturers to fit 4-500hp engines into some SUVs, and sincerely, didn´t read any of you criticizing this even when that actually is a lot more silly, not even comparable

I´m wondering what´s the point of existence for this, look at those wheels

[SmallSoldier]

Because we quit working within walking distance we NEED cars. Work is often 30 or more miles from home and not always served by mass transit and certainly not always on your schedule or drops you a few miles from work.
Of course we could ride a horse and leave home a few hours earlier... but then the GW cats would complain cause horses pass gas.

Well... There is an important part of the world population out there that work more than 30 miles away from work and get there on a daily basis without owning a car... Yes, you don’t see it in major cities in first world countries, but it’s the majority of people in third world countries doing it on a daily basis.

But we’re going off-topic...

Back on topic, drove a Tesla a couple of days ago (which brought me to this topic)... I was impressed and seriously considering one right now.


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[AJI]

...Ultra powerful EVs are just a consequence of adding a huge battery to improve range as people is asking for. Not silly, just what people is asking as once you have a huge battery only few kg more of a bit bigger motor and you have hypercar perfomance almost for free.
...

It's marketing Andres, that was my initial point that started this tangent...

Very few people care if a BEV SUV can out-perform the odd ICE powered super-car to 100kmh.., and absolutely no one cares if it can perform a 'tank turn' because a 'tank turn' is totally and utterly ridiculous.
Marketing departments focus on what they can sell as a positive, whether it's useful or not. I dare say that (in Oz) a BEV's totally unnecessary acceleration capability will be eventually declared as dangerous and restricted. I'm quite sure that Australian regulators will exclude 'tank turn' from ever being allowed in anything but pure off-road situations, possibly even prevented from implementation in the Australian Design Rules..?

What isn't marketable is the statement that 'it only takes 30 minutes to re-fuel to 80%' when the existing competition can do it in 5...

Before you respond, just remember that I'm on your team with the BEV thing, but let's not let marketing cloud our judgment on what is useful and what is marketable.

[Tommy Cookers]

2. From 1 January 2020, this Regulation sets an EU fleet-wide target of 95 g CO2/km for the average emissions of new passenger cars and an EU fleet-wide target of 147 g CO2/km for the average emissions of new light commercial vehicles registered in the Union, as measured until 31 December 2020 in accordance with Regulation (EC) No 692/2008 together with Implementing Regulations (EU) 2017/1152 and (EU) 2017/1153, and from 1 January 2021 measured in accordance with Regulation (EU) 2017/1151.

So if they want to sell lots of big fat ICE suv's, they have to offload some treehuggers' EV's too, as part of the fleet

so the EU viability of EVs is in part compelled such that .... (in EU states where generation involves high coal usage)

... EV CO2/km will be higher than ICEV CO2/km (but is to be called 'zero emissions')