2020 pecking order prediction

[Jambier]

Constructors

1. Mercedes

Big gap

2. Ferrari/RedBull
4. Toro Rosso
5. Renault
6. Haas
7. McLaren
8. Force India
9. Sauber
10. Williams

Drivers
1. Hamilton
2. Bottas
3. Vettel
4. Max
5. LeClerc

The rest...

Why McLaren so low ?

[PlatinumZealot]

Constructors

1. Mercedes

Big gap

2. Ferrari/RedBull
4. Toro Rosso
5. Renault
6. Haas
7. McLaren
8. Force India
9. Sauber
10. Williams

Drivers
1. Hamilton
2. Bottas
3. Vettel
4. Max
5. LeClerc

The rest...

Why McLaren so low ?

Yeah i was thinking about it.
Toro Rosso will be last year's RedBull basically.
Haas is last year's Ferrari. When that combo works their cars are devastingly quick.
And Renault seems to be up to something that could be groundbreaking...

It will be close with McLaren this year. But i have to think like this to go against the grain of popular perceptions.

[Wouter]

Constructors

1. Mercedes

Big gap Why a big gap?

2. Ferrari/RedBull


Drivers
1. Hamilton
2. Bottas
3. Vettel
4. Max
5. LeClerc

Why Max on the 4th place and Bottas and Vettel 2nd and 3rd?

[PlatinumZealot]

[quote=Wouter post_id=885760 time=1581951502 user_id=38467]

[color=#408000]Why Max on the 4th place and Bottas and Vettel 2nd and 3rd?[/color]

[/quote]

Mercedes had the chops to be in contention for the win in all but a handfull of races last year. They also were hobbling with a turned down engine up untill the last quarter of the season.
In terms of their aero, they had the least efficient side-pod design, which they have now upgraded. Their rear suspension incorporates a beam wing to help the diffuser. Sort of an old idea from previous regulations but going by the JA word's "adventurous" we can expect some increase in the ever so limited rear end downfrmorce of these regs.

Their relative dominance has also afforded them time to refine their suspension in areas that RedBull and Ferrari have yet to; such as putting in even more adjustability to adapt to different tracks and improved curb riding (Ferrari and RedBull were far better at this last year).

So i dunno. With these missing peices i think Mercedes will be even more dominant than 2019.


For Bottas, he is no slouch, I would say he is just as quick as Vettel or Max, he just needs to get on top of his tyre management and I think he will do that this year. Max and Vettel will have their own demons to fight and that will be just enough to mess with their ultimate focus. You wont beat Lewis Hamilton over a season without ultimate focus.

My heart wants LeClerc to beat Vettel this year. But I have a feeling 2020 Vettel will be a beast. Yeah, not enough to beat Mercedes... But he wont give LeClerc any quarter.

Max will overdrive.

[Zynerji]

I'm kind of worried about the Renault powered teams. I'm going to make my predictions solely from an engine perspective.

1. Mercedes
2. RBH
3. Ferrari
4. Alpha Tauri (RB15 enhanced)
5. Alpha Romeo
6. Williams (long development time)
7. Haas
8. Racing Point
9. McLaren
10. Renault

I think the Renault engine is now in far last place, and neither of the teams that use it are capable of overcoming the deficits through aero.

Can't wait for Australia!

[ispano6]

When was the last time the team that had a certain domination in a particular regulation era, lost the title in the last year of those regulations? When was the last time a team won 6 double titles on the bounce? It would only be a fantasy to expect either RBR or Ferrari would triumph in such a web of domination from Mercedes. They ended the 2019 season with a considerable margin over both RBR and Ferrari.

2021 should be a season for good bets and surprises, definitely not 2020. Save the money and give a bit of well deserved rest to the emotions.

Note.....Fanboy and baiting comments removed

On the flip side, no one has ever won 7 titles is a row so that would say its impossible, as its never ever been done before

Neither was 6 doubles! Neither a team ever won championships across major rule changes like in 2017 and 2019 (albeit much smaller). There is a reason why this Mercedes team is arguably, the best team of all time.

Maybe because they got started on the engine formula before everyone else?

[etusch]

I remember Ferrari domination times. Everyone's favorite for upcoming season was ferrari because of years of domination. This predictions made without any data, at least from winter test. In the same time it is safe to say that. Safe because it is what we lived until now from 2014.
But ferrari was only 3rd team at 2005 which is the season they were favorite before the season. I was watching every race for expecting someone to beat ferrari. That was another joy for me. Now it is same with mercedes. And I believe that this time safe players will be beated.

[etusch]

I'm kind of worried about the Renault powered teams. I'm going to make my predictions solely from an engine perspective.

1. Mercedes
2. RBH
3. Ferrari
4. Alpha Tauri (RB15 enhanced)
5. Alpha Romeo
6. Williams (long development time)
7. Haas
8. Racing Point
9. McLaren
10. Renault

I think the Renault engine is now in far last place, and neither of the teams that use it are capable of overcoming the deficits through aero.

Can't wait for Australia!

Williams must be 2 laps behind of everyone
(I am doing here what I critisized at my previous comment)

[GPR-A]

On the flip side, no one has ever won 7 titles is a row so that would say its impossible, as its never ever been done before

Neither was 6 doubles! Neither a team ever won championships across major rule changes like in 2017 and 2019 (albeit much smaller). There is a reason why this Mercedes team is arguably, the best team of all time.

Maybe because they got started on the engine formula before everyone else?

May be. But Honda had a full year hands on access to the class leading PU in 2014. They had the liberty to work without any token restrictions for 2014, which other manufacturers had, but still, came up with a donkey. So, having started early means nothing if you can't get it right. It was Ferrari who pushed for the new engine formula as they couldn't beat RBR, who had got a good hold of aero and with the stagnated V8s. Mercedes were struggling in 2012 and switched their focus for 2014, while continuing to rebuild their organization. It proved to be a right decision and of course THEY GOT IT RIGHT, while there was every chance TO GET IT WRONG.

[Wouter]

--------------
So i dunno. With these missing peices i think Mercedes will be even more dominant than 2019.
Do you know what changes and progress Ferrari and RBR have made during the winter?
"Mercedes will be more dominant than 2019." I really don't think so! Just wait and see.

For Bottas, he is no slouch, I would say he is just as quick as Vettel or Max.
I don't agree. Bottas has absolutely no racing insight. Is bad at catching up and defending. He is only fast in qualifying, where he does not have to compete with other drivers, no fights.

Max and Vettel will have their own demons to fight and that will be just enough to mess with their ultimate focus.
Where do you get that nonsense? Or do you hope so?

My heart wants LeClerc to beat Vettel this year. But I have a feeling 2020 Vettel will be a beast.
Yeah, not enough to beat Mercedes... But he wont give LeClerc any quarter.
I totally agree with that.

Max will overdrive.
Do you have a crystal ball? When did he last do that? He has already said that he does not do things like that when he drives for the championship.
Helmut Marko has also said that this year Max will not drive with the knife between the teeth.

[PlatinumZealot]

Do you have a crystal ball?

Please see the topic of the thread!

[Wouter]

Do you have a crystal ball?

Please see the topic of the thread!

This is indeed about predictions. However, your "Max will overdrive" sounds to me like a fact and not a prediction.
So I misunderstood you. Sorry, my apologies.

[FrukostScones]

Neither was 6 doubles! Neither a team ever won championships across major rule changes like in 2017 and 2019 (albeit much smaller). There is a reason why this Mercedes team is arguably, the best team of all time.

Maybe because they got started on the engine formula before everyone else?

May be. But Honda had a full year hands on access to the class leading PU in 2014. They had the liberty to work without any token restrictions for 2014, which other manufacturers had, but still, came up with a donkey. So, having started early means nothing if you can't get it right. It was Ferrari who pushed for the new engine formula as they couldn't beat RBR, who had got a good hold of aero and with the stagnated V8s. Mercedes were struggling in 2012 and switched their focus for 2014, while continuing to rebuild their organization. It proved to be a right decision and of course THEY GOT IT RIGHT, while there was every chance TO GET IT WRONG.

Do you actually believe what you write?

[Jambier]

I'm kind of worried about the Renault powered teams. I'm going to make my predictions solely from an engine perspective.

1. Mercedes
2. RBH
3. Ferrari
4. Alpha Tauri (RB15 enhanced)
5. Alpha Romeo
6. Williams (long development time)
7. Haas
8. Racing Point
9. McLaren
10. Renault

I think the Renault engine is now in far last place, and neither of the teams that use it are capable of overcoming the deficits through aero.

Can't wait for Australia!

Why are your worried that much ?

Of course, Renault declaration are... worrying, does not mean that it will cost those teams 2s a lap


1. Mercedes: Best chassis, this year car is impressive, and they are boucing back to be best engine as well
2. RBH: The car seems really nice. Honda has made progress, but will lack in front of Mercedes
3. Ferrari : The car seems a reasonable upgrade, engine is good, but RB may be in front
4. Alpha Tauri (RB15 enhanced) ? Depending if they can use the car well
5. McLaren: If AT is really strong, otherwise P4

Then... it is quite difficult
6. Haas, they have a 2019 Ferrari, they need to learn to use it
7. Alfa Romeo, I don't expect much from them
8. Racing point, same thing than Alfa
9. Williams but much closer than 2019


* Renault: So PROST said it is a transition year. RIC said that he is on the market. Budkowsky said that car was made by former ( bad ) chassis team, so nothing to expect. Abiteboul said they are working on 2021. Taffin said that they only work on making engine reliable. So they may fall at last place regarding engine.

They are so pessimist that it can means that the car is pure crap. Or that they have find very good gains (we can never know with Enstone) So fighting for P4 or fighting with Williams

[delow24]

Constructors championship:
1. Mercedes – They have had such an over dominant time for so many years there is no way some other team wins. I expect RB or Ferrari to be a bit closer though.
2. RBR – The only reason is that Ferrari will have too much turmoil between drivers.
3. Ferrari – Faster than RB, but I expect to lose some points due to intra-team rivalry. If the fireworks don’t happen and the drivers team up, they are in second.
4. Renault/McLaren – Choose one. I hope McLaren keeps fourth, but I think the Renault driver lineup has an edge.
5. See #4
6. Haas – I would like to see them moving back up the grid, hopefully the Ferrari parts will be working for them this year.
7. Alpha Tauri – Close competition with Haas and RP.
8. RP – If they had two good drivers they could be in 6/7 place
9. Alfa Romeo – Kimi is just cruising this year, Gio just is not F1 material.
10. Williams – no comment

Powerplant rank:
Mercedes – Still the best, they did not unlock some of their power/modes in the last part of the season resolving some reliability so there was some untapped potential last year and they did not sit still for 2020.
Ferrari – It looks like they made some big changes too. I expect them to just barely be behind Merc, maybe slightly ahead.
Honda – Still doubtful they solved their reliability issues. Have yet to go a season and even come close to working within the engine/parts limit. May be behind Renault still in horsepower. In third based solely on the fact that RB can actually win races.
Renault – Making some strides in reliability and making some good horsepower, just not winning.

Drivers, with just some commentary on top 10 :
Hamilton – Still no one with the package to beat him
Bottas – The guy is pretty solid. He just has to come in ahead of Verstappen as usual
Verstappen – not having a competitive team mate helps in situations where RBR can capitalize on Ferrari turmoil
Leclerc or Vettel – Whichever one comes ahead in the rivalry
Vettel or Leclerc – loser of the rivalry
Sainz – I think he can take some points from the second RB for sure and I just hope the McL is better than Renault
Ricciardo – Does better in second year at Renault and gunning for a better team in 2021.
Albon - May be able to make strides against Sainz/Ric, but I am not sold.
Norris - A more solid season for him with fewer errors and making expected progress
Ocon - Ric has beaten a 4x WDC and spanked Verstappen, Ocon will be no problem.
Magnussen
Perez
Gasly
Kvyat
Grosjean
Räikkönen
Stroll
Giovinazzi
Russell
Latifi