Honda F1 in trouble, and withdraw from F1

[Ray]

Please let Paul Stoddart bring back Minardi [-o< I would kill to see my beloved Minardi back on the grid.

[Chaparral]

Please let Paul Stoddart bring back Minardi [-o< I would kill to see my beloved Minardi back on the grid.

Ray that's the best suggestion Ive seen in relation to Honda - he's a man with some means behind him and the experience to run a very tight ship and with Honda offering it for a song he could well be the guy you need to steer the ship - he's also a great motivator. The only stick in the mud may be he said that he wouldnt be back in F1 whilst Mosely was still there - but I know he looked at Super Aguri a little while back and I think his involvement with open wheel racing in the US finished when Champcar tanked so he's a free agent.

[xpensive]

For Ray and Jambsong:
I figure that this is somehow in the walls at Brackley, remember the first BAR seaon, when they where hoping to win their first F1 race, just because Reynard had done so in everey minor series competed in.

I think the whole concept was wrong from the beginning, with Jaques Villeneuve's manager impersonating a Team manager and Reynard busy with mass-production for CART, a long shot from the F1 experience.

Then there are the strange appointments of drivers, such as Ricardo Zonta, Olivier Panis and lately a reportedly overpaid Jenson Button, which they had to buy out of an existing Williams contract.

[andartop]

How about Tom Walkinshaw? What is he up to these days?

[Fil]

He's just 're-acquired' the Holden Racing Team in the Australian V8 Supercar series.
TWR went bankrupt only a few years ago due to his attempt with Arrows, so whilst he's well on the way to recovery, i doubt he or the business is in any financial shape to buy back into F1 so soon. If he couldn't find sponsors in 2002, he won't find them in today's economic climate.

[xpensive]

As I understand things, his bankrupcy left some hard feelings behind in F1, reportedly with Cosworth in particular.

[Chaparral]

Walkinshoddy is a bit of a villain if you talk to any self respecting journo or various racing people - there were all the stories of him funneling millions into his own account from Arrows sponsorship as the team was tanking - in 87 he screwed the late and legendary Peter Brock and ended up with the HDT (Holden Dealer Team) that Brock headed - in 2003 he was bust (with a small fortune in hand) and Holden appointed Mark Skaife as principle because Walkinshoddy was deemed an unfit person to hold a V8 Supercar license although he was allowed a part ownership - and now he's just shafted Mark Skaife for total ownership of HRT (Skaife if no one knows is the most successful touring car racer in Aussie history and who hung up his helmet last weekend at 41). Walkinshoddy still needs to prove he is now a fit person to hold 2 of the level 1 licenses in V8 Supercars - I dont see what has changed really so I dont see him involved in F1 anytime soon. The person who is getting press at the moment is David Richards - we shall see.

Heres something doing the rounds on Walkinshoddy

[donskar]

With all the doom and gloom (which I have a hard time not feeling myself) here are a couple positives:

1) From Adam Parr, Willaims F1 CEO:
"We believe that our position is pretty much different to all the other teams because every other team in Formula One is primarily dependent on one of its shareholders that is providing either all or a very high proportion of the income for the team.

"That shareholder is in Formula One primarily for marketing reasons. They can at any time decide that the cost-benefit ratio of leaving Formula One makes sense.

"The difference with Williams is that we don't have a choice about being in F1, that is what we do."

If more teams had the attitude "that is what we do" rather than "is in Formula One primatily for marketing reasons" what a different sport it would be. (Ferrari might be the exception to Parr's description of "all the other teams".)

2) FOTA and Mosley are working together to get more funds out of Ecclestone. Mosley supposedly requested:
"The FIA would join with FOTA in seeking to persuade FOM to divide the prize money so that up to 12 teams are guaranteed at least $50m (€40m or £33m) each. This would ensure a full grid with a strong possibility that new teams will enter the championship, filling the two vacant slots as well as any additional vacancies." A guarantee of $50 million would certainly be very helpful. That plus reasonable sponsorship could get a team on the grid.

Both of the above are from autosport.com.

[Metar]

We must consider, though, how much of that sum will come from the track-owners' pockets... And fear that Bernie, in an effort to keep his own earnings at the same level, will simply increase the burden on those?

But yeah, 50m$ per team, perhaps with bonus-stages reaching 70m$ for the (constructor's) champions, would do great. Cap the budgets at 30m$ independent money from sponsors/manufacturers (so even the champions' bonus only nets a maximum 100m$), and you have a full grid capable of competing at the highest level.

[mx_tifoso]

Seeing how the F1 team will have funds until March, does this still mean that the team will continue development until then? Accompanied by testing up until the time and funds run out?

They took the 'Earth Dreams' idea way too far and should have had a few [more?] sponsors, even if they didn't provide major amounts of cash, but just enough to alleviate some of the pressure from Honda Motor Co. But poor Brawn, he wanted a challenge, and he sure as hell has one now.

[donskar]

mx_tifosi, I think your question is answered by Brawn to autosport.com:

"I hope we can find someone who can pick this up and really reap the rewards and benefits of what we have done. The car is all but designed – and our judgement on its performance level is that we will be very competitive next year and it will be a great shame if it does not see the light of day."

Honda have agreed to fund the team until March, but at nowhere near the level they would have done if they were sticking to their plan to return to the front. It means that Honda Racing will skip the next two pre-Christmas tests in Jerez, and also a change of plans in terms of the timetable for launching the new car.

"We were scheduled to have the new car running at the end of January and now, because of a probable engine change, we are scheduling the beginning of March."

Cutting through the understandable "spin" it sounds like the car is not quite done, no testing on the horizon, and redesign of some extent will be needed to fit in a new powertrain.

[donskar]

Excellent point, metar:

We must consider, though, how much of that sum will come from the track-owners' pockets... And fear that Bernie, in an effort to keep his own earnings at the same level, will simply increase the burden on those?

With the recent loss of Canada, and potential losses of Germany and China, Bernie may have to look long and hard for new and richer fools to bleed. I don't think there is much more to be had from the current track owners or promoters. But there is one born every minute . . . GP or Borneo? GP of Patagonia? Albania?

[Meeklo]

I wonder if whoever buys Honda could team up with Cosworth as beta testers for the 2010 spec engine through out the year, while still racing of course. That would both help development of the engine and give the team a advantage in car design for 2010.

[axle]

I can't quite see why Honda won't at least offer a powertrain for the coming year. This would make the team a more viable option for someone to pick up. Being forced to redesign suspension pick ups and the tubs mounting points is just stupid and will only leave all involved with negative feelings towards Honda.

At the end of the day, the new owners (should they find one) would be probably willing to meet Honda's costs...

[WhiteBlue]

Honda want out of F1 for PR reasons. They will execute some very painfull cuts and prior to this exercise they will pull up their rear guard so that nobody can point to waste of money when the hammer falls. Speed of execution is important to the plan if they want to claim reaction to exceptional circumstances. You have to understand that restructuring plans are very rigid in the way they are shown in a balance sheet and in the way losses can be tax deductable. To do anything but a full pull out could be risky for the board.