Old Tracks Vs. New

[Ted68]

With Zandvoort returning to the F1 calendar we are getting a new race and not being relegated to a new corporate style track reminiscent of the Tilke-Tracks from Bernie's Expansionist Era, or worse yet, a street course.

What other classic tracks would you like to see brought back and which current race removed.

I say return Mugello, remove Singapore.

So many great tracks in Japan, USA, Canada, Brazil, England, France, Spain, Germany, etc. that would be an improvement over current tracks.

[NathanOlder]

Not sure you can return to Mugello , as they never been there in the first place

Current tracks that are not on the calendar that I like are

Imola, Magny Cours, Estoril, Hockenheim, Nurburgring, Fuji and Istanbul.

I never liked the Buddh circuit, Korea circuit, Sepang, Kyalami, Zolder, Indianapolis.

And there are some tracks that I like but are not big enough ect like Jerez, Brands, Donington & Dijon.

[izzy]

Tracks have to match the cars don't they, there's no point running huge 1000 hp cars on a narrow lil old track, they can't race. Street tracks can all go afaic, and Abu Dhabi. Nurb yes, that first sequence of corners, like China.

And they need atmosphere, from a crowd, Zandvoort is gonna have some of that...

[SiLo]

I think some tracks would be so much better if they were simply a little bit wider offering slightly different lines and more overtaking opportunities.

I'd also like to see more tracks that are more open like Spa, with longer faster corners.

[Ted68]

Not sure you can return to Mugello , as they never been there in the first place

You are correct! I remember seeing them "race" there but my memory must be of this, a test. I guess the memory fogs past 50.

from wiki-p,

"The circuit was used over 1–3 May, for the in-season test during the 2012 Formula One season, by all teams except HRT. The track was praised by Mark Webber, who stated that he "did 10 dry laps today around Mugello, which is the same as doing 1000 laps around Abu Dhabi track in terms of satisfaction".[4] Four-time Formula One world champion Sebastian Vettel was impressed too, saying that “unfortunately we don’t have this track on the calendar. It’s an incredible circuit with a lot of high-speed corners”.[5] It holds a grade 1 FIA license, meaning it meets the standards to host a Formula 1 race.[6] An unofficial track record of 1:21.035 was set by Romain Grosjean during the test.[7]

[NathanOlder]

Yeah its a great circuit, love watching the MotoGP every year at Mugello.

[Big Tea]

I always liked Estoril. But is seems to be neglected now so may not be available.

[Andres125sx]

I loved Magny Cours

OTOH I don´t understand the criticism to Tilke tracks, I like most of them. What do you dislike about them?

[Just_a_fan]

I like Magny Cours too. Could race there and the head on shots of the cars through the Imola "chicane" (Turns 12 and 13?) always looked good and showed an F1 car's ability to change direction really beautifully.

[JordanMugen]

I loved Magny Cours

OTOH I don´t understand the criticism to Tilke tracks, I like most of them. What do you dislike about them?

This is a proper track:


This is not a proper track:


Everything is wrong. It's too wide, it's too artificial... It's just like some painted lines on a parking lot, a technical exercise instead of a real driving challenge.

A proper track should be heart in the mouth, biting your tongue, and going "phwoah, blimey" when pushing it to the limit. A proper race track should be like a roller coaster for motor vehicles. Not "oh I missed the apex, never mind, I'll just detour through the paved runoff".

I like Magny Cours too.

I think you are very much in the minority, as most people including myself despise the modern Paul Ricard [edit].

When you go to a proper track like Red Bull Ring, Suzuka or Spa and even Hungaroring, Catalunya or new Hockenheim (which are both vastly better than most brand new F1 cricuits), it's just a night and day improvement over Paul Ricard [edit] or Sochi.

The great similarity between Red Bull's Ring and Honda's Suzuka shows how they are a good match of constructor and engine supplier. The tracks largely still have their gravel traps on most corners. They are both traditionalist tracks owned by traditionalist owners, who think a motor racing circuit should be a daunting challenge to drive at the limit.

High dimensional technique and extreme concentration are required in order to successfully capture this challenging course, so is the opinion of the vast majority of top racing drivers that are given the chance to race at Suzuka Circuit.

Fernando Alonso, “Suzuka is probably the most difficult track in the world. The most challenging one too, that is why I love every bit of this course. ”

https://www.suzukacircuit.jp/en/info/aboutus/guide/

I very much like Monaco and Baku too as they provide the same driving challenge of pushing it to the ragged edge , even if this challenge happens at lower speed due to the tighter layout. Sure it is difficult to overtake at Monaco, but this only builds the tension and drama ("track position is king at Monaco")... Monaco is a truly iconic circuit for Grand Prix racing.

[Andres125sx]

I loved Magny Cours

OTOH I don´t understand the criticism to Tilke tracks, I like most of them. What do you dislike about them?

This is a proper track:
https://s3.f1destinations.com/wp-conten ... 24x635.jpg

This is not a proper track:
https://www.sportinglife.com/images/new ... 5f0d89.jpg

Everything is wrong. It's too wide, it's too artificial... It's just like some painted lines on a parking lot, a technical exercise instead of a real driving challenge.

A proper track should be heart in the mouth, biting your tongue, and going "phwoah, blimey" when pushing it to the limit. A proper race track should be like a roller coaster for motor vehicles. Not "oh I missed the apex, never mind, I'll just detour through the paved runoff".

I like Magny Cours too.

I think you are very much in the minority, as most people including myself despise the modern Magny Cours.

When you go to a proper track like Red Bull Ring, Suzuka or Spa and even Hungaroring, Catalunya or new Hockenheim (which are both vastly better than most brand new F1 cricuits), it's just a night and day improvement over Magny Cours or Sochi.

The great similarity between Red Bull's Ring and Honda's Suzuka shows how they are a good match of constructor and engine supplier. The tracks largely still have their gravel traps on most corners. They are both traditionalist tracks owned by traditionalist owners, who think a motor racing circuit should be a daunting challenge to drive at the limit.

High dimensional technique and extreme concentration are required in order to successfully capture this challenging course, so is the opinion of the vast majority of top racing drivers that are given the chance to race at Suzuka Circuit.

Fernando Alonso, “Suzuka is probably the most difficult track in the world. The most challenging one too, that is why I love every bit of this course. ”

https://www.suzukacircuit.jp/en/info/aboutus/guide/

I very much like Monaco and Baku too as they provide the same driving challenge of pushing it to the ragged edge , even if this challenge happens at lower speed due to the tighter layout.

Suzuka is my favourite track ever, so can´t disagree with that part

But the rest... sorry but mostly disagree. Magny Cours is awesome, and most people I´ve read some comment about it agree with me, so probably it´s just the opposite, you´re the one in the minority, Magny Cours is a great track

So you don´t like Tilke tracks because of the parts wich are not the track itself. I tend to evaluate track because of the track, the rest is just a bonus or a con, but the main thing of any track is the layout, and most Tilke tracks are awesome, including Austin, actually Austin is amazing, the modern track most similar to Suzuka probably

And those parts wich are not track itself, what you critizice is not a decision from Tilke, it´s what modern era demands, safety, and tarmac is several orders of magnitude safer than gravel. I don´t like that either, I think there should be at least 1.5-2m grass just behind the white line to penalize those who go wide, but even so Austin is so much better to Monaco I can´t grasp how do you like Monaco and dislike Austin. Monaco is great for qualification, challenging. But Monaco races are, plain and simple, a farce. Leaders have raced at 8 seconds slower laptimes than possible, and none dared to try an overtake. That´s what you like for racing tracks, cars racing far from the limit and even so not seeing any overtake?

[FW17]

Magny Cours is a great track

[JordanMugen]

Magny Cours is a great track

My bad, I got Magny Cours mixed up with Paul Ricard.

Magny Cours is indeed a great track!

But the rest... sorry but mostly disagree. Magny Cours is awesome, and most people I´ve read some comment about it agree with me, so probably it´s just the opposite, you´re the one in the minority, Magny Cours is a great track

I'm not a fan of Paul Ricard and I think most people don't like Paul Ricard, that's what I meant.

So you don´t like Tilke tracks because of the parts wich are not the track itself.

I think Sepang and Shanghai are quite good. Modern classics. Nothing wrong with Tilke tracks in general. I can't remember if Istanbul was designed by Tilke, but that was also a great circuit.

Abu Dhabi however is mediocre at best and Sochi and Paul Ricard (neither designed by Tilke AFAIK) are just dismal. Paul Ricard is like driving around a parking lot with lines painted on it, and Sochi is similar.

But Monaco races are, plain and simple, a farce. Leaders have raced at 8 seconds slower laptimes than possible, and none dared to try an overtake.

Would Monaco races be nearly as exciting if Mansell on fresh Goodyears could blitz past Senna with ease on a 10m wide back straight? If Vettel could pass an ailing Ricciardo with ease? If Coulthard could pass Bernoldi with ease instead of being stuck behind comically for the entire race? I think it adds drama and tension and is great.

We wouldn't have seen the interesting tactics like the Ferrari drivers backing up the field in the 2017 race (IIRC), if Monaco was so easy to overtake.

[Andres125sx]

Magny Cours is a great track

My bad, I got Magny Cours mixed up with Paul Ricard.

That makes sense, modern Paul Ricard is a bit of an optical ilusion

But Monaco races are, plain and simple, a farce. Leaders have raced at 8 seconds slower laptimes than possible, and none dared to try an overtake.

Would Monaco races be nearly as exciting if Mansell on fresh Goodyears could blitz past Senna with ease on a 10m wide back straight? If Vettel could pass an ailing Ricciardo with ease? If Coulthard could pass Bernoldi with ease instead of being stuck behind comically for the entire race? I think it adds drama and tension and is great.

We wouldn't have seen the interesting tactics like the Ferrari drivers backing up the field in the 2017 race (IIRC), if Monaco was so easy to overtake.

Exciting races in Monaco? What decade are we talking about? Because excitement in Monaco races disapeared long time ago, today it´s a procesion where the leader don´t even need to push or defend to keep position. IMHO a farce of a race

[Ringleheim]

Mugello is an awesome track. I would be happy to eliminate at least half the tracks on the calendar in a heartbeat.

Where to return to? A modified, fully restored Zeltweg would be #1 on the list. Kyalami (the old one) was a great track. Imola, though it was ruined after Senna's crash. How about Brands Hatch?! Don't know how well modern F1 cars would get on there, but that's another one.