Mercedes W11

[dren]

After reading the same arguments for and against for tens of pages, it gets a bit tiring. If you have something new to add, great, if not then move on.

[Mark4211]

They have started using other BBAL offset values apart from .5%.

Pictured: 56.8% BBAL

[LM10]

They have started using other BBAL offset values apart from .5%.

Pictured: 56.8% BBAL

https://i.imgur.com/FSWtDSI.png

What's that?

[i70q7m7ghw]

I'm going back to the question I asked 2 days ago about the possibility that using the DAS might break the parc fermé rule.
1- If you think that changing the toe angle is not a suspension configuration change, would you allow the mechanics to change it by working on the steering box or moving it?
2- If the toe angle is not a suspension setup parameter, does it mean that the steering arm is not a suspension member an therefore does not count towards the six suspension members limit defined by art. 10.3.5?

The point is, the toe angle is being changed as a result of steering input, which is perfectly legal and necessary for car to actually go around a corner. If the steering input required to operate DAS is breaking parc ferme, then any steering is breaking parc ferme and all cars are illegal. There's nothing in this year's regs that specifies what the steering input should be and exactly how that should change the toe angle. If you want to understand how it's legal, compare this year's regs to next year's. Time to accept it and move on.

[vogonvader]

They have started using other BBAL offset values apart from .5%.

Pictured: 56.8% BBAL

https://i.imgur.com/FSWtDSI.png

What's that?

Brake Balance - Front/Rear

[dans79]

They have started using other BBAL offset values apart from .5%.

Pictured: 56.8% BBAL

https://i.imgur.com/FSWtDSI.png

What's that?

They used to only be able to adjust brake balance in 0.5% increments. A displayed value of 56.8% suggests that they have lowered the increment to 0.2% or 0.1%.

[zac510]

2- If the toe angle is not a suspension setup parameter, does it mean that the steering arm is not a suspension member an therefore does not count towards the six suspension members limit defined by art. 10.3.5?

Great point. And 10.3.3; Let's put a huge wing on that steering arm

They do. Up to the size limits in the regs. And they change the incidence with steering angle using a cam on the hub end ball joint. @Platinum Zealot posted about this recently.

You missed my point. The size limit reg you mention is 10.3.3. A steering arm is not a suspension member anymore, if this DAS is legal, so 10.3.3 doesn't apply.
Thus they can go even more extreme on the steering arm now.

[ema00]

What will happen if mercedes forget to re-align the steering wheel at the end of q3/race? Will it be declared illegal for the quali/race?

[Manoah2u]

What will happen if mercedes forget to re-align the steering wheel at the end of q3/race? Will it be declared illegal for the quali/race?

i don't see the issue, i don't believe there is any rule as for how far the steering wheel needs to be in or out, nor the mandatory toe angle for the wheels. also, i think it's an impossibility, as under braking, the steering wheel goes into it's 'original' position, so the only moment there is any 'alignment' diferences is when the driver pulls the steering wheel at the straight, under a certain amount of force. when that force is no longer extorted, then the steering wheel returns to it's 'normal' position.

or i'm understanding the question wrong?

[henry]

Great point. And 10.3.3; Let's put a huge wing on that steering arm

They do. Up to the size limits in the regs. And they change the incidence with steering angle using a cam on the hub end ball joint. @Platinum Zealot posted about this recently.

rules about the steering or rules about the suspensions?

Rules about suspension elements. There are allowed to be up to 6 elements per wheel. My expectation is that these are: two for the upper wishbone, two for the lower, one push or pull rod and one for the track rod (steering arm). The regulations don’t specify these and other configurations that meet these rules would have to be allowed.

IMO Steering is an alignment function using elements of the suspension not a separate physical system. The rules allow re-alignment using this function. The rule writers didn’t expect that the re- alignment might be change in toe. They do now and have written this option out of the 2021 regulations.

[i70q7m7ghw]

Exactly that, the track rod is still one of the 6 elements, but it's accepted that it moves as a result of driver input through the steering wheel. What that movement should be and how it alters the direction of the front wheels isn't specified in the regs. I really really don't understand how people aren't getting this

And no, they wouldn't be DSQ if the driver forgot to push the steering wheel forward at the end of qualifying, no more than they would be DSQ if the driver forgot to straighten the steering wheel.

[dans79]

also, i think it's an impossibility, as under braking, the steering wheel goes into it's 'original' position, so the only moment there is any 'alignment' diferences is when the driver pulls the steering wheel at the straight, under a certain amount of force.

I think Scarabs mentioned in the video he did for Peter Windsor, that he thought this was by design for performance and for safety reasons.

[LM10]

They have started using other BBAL offset values apart from .5%.

Pictured: 56.8% BBAL

https://i.imgur.com/FSWtDSI.png

What's that?

They used to only be able to adjust brake balance in 0.5% increments. A displayed value of 56.8% suggests that they have lowered the increment to 0.2% or 0.1%.

Thanks! And also thanks @vogonvader.

[ncx]

They have started using other BBAL offset values apart from .5%.

Pictured: 56.8% BBAL

https://i.imgur.com/FSWtDSI.png

What's that?

They used to only be able to adjust brake balance in 0.5% increments. A displayed value of 56.8% suggests that they have lowered the increment to 0.2% or 0.1%.

Or they might have preset increments, maybe adjusted for the specific track. Watching on-boards should clear this. (I haven't watched much of them yet.)

PS: Just to make it clear, I am not referring to an illegal BB adjustment system.

[Dreameagl]

I guess Mark Hughes had a moment of confusion (toe vs camber) in his article here:

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... PCKC4.html

Typically an F1 car will be set up so that its front wheels are aligned with ‘toe-out’, which simply means that they splay out at the bottom away from the centre of the car, with the top pointing inwards.