Open Aero Developement for '99 Benetton

[scottmansell]

Hi Everyone,

This is my first post on this forum so please be kind! I am likely to be driving a '99 Benetton in the EuroBoss series next year, a series in which I last competed in '04.

The team and I are looking to develop the aero of the car as EuroBoss has minimal rules, especially on aero. In '04 I drove a '97 Benetton, which was developed slightly as it had a flat bottom instead of the original plank. This change lowered lap times substantially, for example I was nearly 2 seconds faster at Donnington with the flat bottom.

My aero knowledge is basic, so I am here to ask you guys for advice and info on what we can do to the car, bearing in mind that we don't have to adhere to strict rules such as current F1. We will 'flat bottom' the car again, but no doubt there are many more tweeks we can make to the aero without being too costly with drag. We played with the height of the '97 front wing main plane and found a gain there.

The '99 is very plain in design, almost a blank canvas, compared to the '08 cars.

If anyone has any ideas then please get in contact, there is every possibility we will test it on the car if the potential gains are large enough. Please also bear in mind that there is a budget to stick to, so if you could think about how easily the mod can be made that would be great! I'm not asking much I know!

I look forward to reading your ideas.

Best,

Scott Mansell

[PNSD]

Hello and welcome!!!
Are there any developments allowed on the cooling aspects, like radiators? And even the engines, do they have to be the same engines as what the car originally had?

I would think a good way to increase downforce and reduce drag would be to change the sidepod design if you could get the packaging right.

Other than that I guess what makes the laptime are the little changes.

Or perhaps even address a handling issue you may feel the car has? ie tends to understeer for highspeed corners? If possible a good aero analysis of the car using cfd or a windtunnel would be a good start to learn the basic aero characteristics of the car.

[wesley123]

maybe using gurneys help to increase downforce, if you lower the front wing to the ground the underside will have more effect.

Updating rear wings and sidepods will be a good start, maing them smaller will gain alot, also changes on the engine cover might be helpful

[Scotracer]

A couple of (what I'd hope would be) easy modifications:

-Lower front wing
-Increase the size of the rear diffuser
-Fabricate a shark-fin
-Upgrade the rear-wing (create a 3-element structure)

Can you tell me what engine you will be running? The original 3.0 V10 Playlife? How about improving the cooling system? I.e. using better heat exchangers. This would allow you to reduce the size of the sidepod intakes, reducing parasitic drag.

If it's not beyond the realms of your budget, how about getting a bespoke exhaust system designed that would allow upper exits (where they are on current cars)? They are better for aerodynamics.

[samstre]

Put on some "real" bargeboards (maybe you'll find someone in here who can do a cfd simulation for you - or just look at the b200... i think the b200 is just a evolution of the b199 with some minor aero improvements like bargeboards, a lower nose and a lighter engine)

Lower the nose (if you got really much time you could fabricate your own nose)

Cut out some shark grills for better engine cooling (i think benetton had 2 blown up engines in 1999)

[PNSD]

Looking at pictures of the B199... provided it was possible to achieve better cooling and therefore make use of modified sidepods I believe there is alot of change possible and time to find. Though it really depends on how much the team is willing to spend. The sidepods really do appear to be quite high, but like I said it depends on budget. Having not seen the lineup for the Euroboss for next season I can imagine the B199 already being one of the quicker cars.

edit - it also depends on the facilities the team has or has access to. The easiest way to get more speed quicker id say is to add a 3rd rear wing element and lower the front, but you've already done that. Mechanical changes may also be easier than aero modifications. Easier to test and maybe cheaper. Design of a new rear diffuser would be a difficult job, we must persume given the cars aero balance that the diffuser is at its maximum performance and any changes could significantly alter the handling of the car, without windtunnel data and then testing it would be difficult to know.

[Jersey Tom]

Indeed. Budget and facilities are big big questions.

Best bet is to hire a race engineer / designer.

I'm available for a small fee

My strength is tire and suspension engineering though.

[wesley123]

Posting the rules would be something smart too, then we can find out what is allowed and what not.
Resources will be smart too.

[theDr]

I will work on a desing on my computer for you and see what i can come up
I will modify a picture of that car with my designs put onto it

[Steven]

Hi Scott,
welcome to F1technical!

If I recall correctly, the B199 is the Benetton which is equipped with a mechanical system to control the braking differently between the front wheels. I'm not sure what it's called, but if that is still in the car, maybe it would be handy to remove the system to reduce the car's weight (or at least be able to lower the centre of gravity).

You might also want to try adding turning vanes/wings directly on the uprights like Renault F1 have done in 2008. They provide downforce on the wheels without loading the suspension.

EuroBOSS 2008 regs: http://www.eurobossf1.com/regulations.htm

[machin]

Please also bear in mind that there is a budget to stick to

Hi Scott, I've seen you race a former Benetton F1 car at Brands Hatch a while back... you broke the circuit record if I remember.... think I might have some nice black and white photos...

Anyway.... The difficulty is overcoming the budget issue.... of course it would be nice if you could re-arrange the radiators so that you can get some nice side-pods made up to replicate what F1 have done recently.. but I think that'd be a big and costly change....

Start off with the basics... you'd assume that an F1 car would be pretty good in this respect, but if you've changed anything then the new parts might not be optimised... so nice radiused edges on radiator inlets for example, and making sure that panels fit nicely...

I think the biggest and simplest change would be fabricating taller and longer rear wing end plates.. I think the sizes used in '99 were governed by the rules... if you can do your own thing you can position the wing elements higher and make the end plates bigger so that both items do a better job (i.e. the wing is less "shadowed" by the engine intake and the taller/longer end plates ensure that air doesn't bleed from the high pressure side to the low pressure side) you'll have a really potent rear wing... that means more downforce for the same drag, or the same downforce with less drag. Longer end plates would tend to stabilise the rear too...

Going up in cost, how about fabricating new front wing and end plates.... You could try copying the shape of those on current F1 cars... the ones used in 99 look quite basic.... teams learned that its best to loose some of the wing area to make the end plates more complex, thus making what wing area you do have much more efficient.... only problem there is that if you change the flow too much you'll affect flow to the rear wing... maybe in a good way, but without CFD or a wind tunnel you won't know...) A simple alternative is to simply make the end plates bigger as suggested for the rear wing... and dropping the wing if possible as others have suggested, though you'll need to make sure you don't then cause the car to porpoise if the air-flow gets too restricted if you run it too close to the ground)....

Or fabricating new suspension elements which have a a larger width to height ratio (i.e. more tear-drop shaped)... again I think this ratio was governed by the rules so they ended up not being an ideal aerodynamic shape?

Interesting little project you've let the people on here into!

Machin

[machin]

From The rules:-

4(5) Bodywork: Free

Quite open then!

[machin]

[quote="machin] position the wing elements higher [/quote]

... although only problem with doing this is that you might lose some interaction effects between the rear wing and the diffuser....!!!! As you can see making modifications is a very tricky thing without actual CFD or wind tunnel tests.....

...making the end plates taller and longer should make the wing more efficient without negatively affecting any other system though... its also simple, so this would still be my first recommendation (after checking the basics!).

[wesley123]

That is really cool.

You can make those sidepod vanes to bargeboard connection like on the honda, with the element going down to the turning vane and where it is turned, this increases downforce and reduces drag if done right.

Also building smaller sidepods so the air can reach the lower element can increase downforce.

Just take a look at modern cars.

Making an red bull style engine cover isnt smart as it only adds drag and a small bit of downforce in turning, with everything possible in mind you can easily add more downfoce on other ways.

Making an low front wing close to the ground increases the bottom effect of the wing, and when you make a double decker of it you can increase downforce significantly. With this in mind you can actually make your car faster then 2008 cars.

[theDr]

are there any decent pics of the Benetton 99 car anywhere