F1 2020 Pre-Season Testing Thread

[GPR-A]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferr ... t/4700615/

there should be a few ppl at Ferrari (maybe all of the Ferrari) apologizing to a certain person in the paddock

A certain Dutch person?

Why? For him having made irresponsible and immature statement about a team?

[mzso]

About the DAS:

"The re-alignment of the steered wheels, as defined by the position of the inboard attachment of the relevant suspensions members that remain a fixed distance from each other, must be uniquely defined by a monotonic function of the rotational position of a single steering wheel."

So apparently this is the regulation for 2021 (I didn't double check).
What does monotonic function mean?

By the way, after watching the video on toe angles by chainbear I wonder why does the system even exist. They could just make steering in a way that the inner wheel's angle changes more than the outer's when as the steering wheel turns and they could go with parallel wheel in the straights. No DAS needed.

I'll assume the worst - they were outright illegal last year.

If they were outright, unquestionably illegal, than FIA would have penalized them, even Ferrari.

[FittingMechanics]

About the DAS:

"The re-alignment of the steered wheels, as defined by the position of the inboard attachment of the relevant suspensions members that remain a fixed distance from each other, must be uniquely defined by a monotonic function of the rotational position of a single steering wheel."

So apparently this is the regulation for 2021 (I didn't double check).
What does monotonic function mean?

Always increasing or decreasing.

It's probably there so that the teams cannot make a suspension that is tailored to a track. Imagine you have a track with 3 corners, in those three you need 3 steering locks (10, 20 and 50 degrees).

Corner 1 (10 degrees) is a high speed one banked corner and you need lot of toe for it, Corner 2 is a slower corner but cambered wrong way and you need toe, Corner 3 is slow but need a lot of toe.

An complicated suspension setup may be able to have higher toe at 10 degrees of lock, lower at 20 and again higher at 50. This would not be a monotonic function and it would be illegal.

Second part of the rule is that it has to be controlled by a "rotational position of a single steering wheel". This means that DAS is illegal as it does not use rotational position, but rather longitudal one. Single steering wheel is probably here so teams don't get miniature steering wheels to control toe (not sure if this part about the single steering wheel was in the rules before).

By the way, after watching the video on toe angles by chainbear I wonder why does the system even exist. They could just make steering in a way that the inner wheel's angle changes more than the outer's when as the steering wheel turns and they could go with parallel wheel in the straights. No DAS needed.

Sometimes you don't want the toe to be reduced, you probably want toe increased before you reach the turn in point.

I'll assume the worst - they were outright illegal last year.

If they were outright, unquestionably illegal, than FIA would have penalized them, even Ferrari.

If it is an "option" on the engine that can be enabled or disabled, it's illegal only if they use it. FIA may have had trouble proving that Ferrari used it. To avoid problems they just come to a conclusion and close a loophole.

[DChemTech]

About the DAS:

"The re-alignment of the steered wheels, as defined by the position of the inboard attachment of the relevant suspensions members that remain a fixed distance from each other, must be uniquely defined by a monotonic function of the rotational position of a single steering wheel."

So apparently this is the regulation for 2021 (I didn't double check).
What does monotonic function mean?

By the way, after watching the video on toe angles by chainbear I wonder why does the system even exist. They could just make steering in a way that the inner wheel's angle changes more than the outer's when as the steering wheel turns and they could go with parallel wheel in the straights. No DAS needed.

I'll assume the worst - they were outright illegal last year.

If they were outright, unquestionably illegal, than FIA would have penalized them, even Ferrari.

The history of questionable interactions between FIA and Ferrari makes me doubt that. If it was fully legal, they would have given the details. If it was based on a very specific interpretation of the rules, as maybe for DAS, they would probably have explained it too to at least clear the air, seeing how much fuzz there was about the engine last year. The fact that they keep it covered and feel the need to agree to some settlement is a clear indication that things are off. And I do find the whole way things are handled rather disturbing, it shows how much the game is still rigged. FIA should know better by now. Anyway, enough about this in the testing thread

[the EDGE]

Like the Ferrari International Assistance would EVER punish Ferrari

[Capharol]

there should be a few ppl at Ferrari (maybe all of the Ferrari) apologizing to a certain person in the paddock

A certain Dutch person?

Why? For him having made irresponsible and immature statement about a team?

i requote my answer from earlier

oh there is after what the ppl at Ferrari said..... they lied to the whole world to cover their a*** and telling others how to behave? well if i already didn't dislike Ferrari, i do certainly now because there is 1 thing i hate, ppl that lie and blaming others for being honest

[GPR-A]

A certain Dutch person?

Why? For him having made irresponsible and immature statement about a team?

i requote my answer from earlier

oh there is after what the ppl at Ferrari said..... they lied to the whole world to cover their a*** and telling others how to behave? well if i already didn't dislike Ferrari, i do certainly now because there is 1 thing i hate, ppl that lie and blaming others for being honest

Why should Ferrari apologize to him? Is there someone established that his statement was in fact, "A FACT"? FIA released a statement of their evaluation of Ferrari PU and said, it's confidential. How does that provide credibility for an immature statement?

(Note Personal attack removed. Keep it civil please.)

[mzso]

An complicated suspension setup may be able to have higher toe at 10 degrees of lock, lower at 20 and again higher at 50. This would not be a monotonic function and it would be illegal.

Sometimes you don't want the toe to be reduced, you probably want toe increased before you reach the turn in point.

Hmmm. I did not think about potentially needing lower toe angle at higher lock. Kind of explains the existence of the system.

And I do find the whole way things are handled rather disturbing, it shows how much the game is still rigged.

I think secretiveness is stupid, don't know about rigging.
The actual rigging is the handouts that old teams, particularly Ferrari gets for doing nothing. I wonder what they will settle on this for 2021 onward.

[dxpetrov]

Why? For him having made irresponsible and immature statement about a team?

i requote my answer from earlier

oh there is after what the ppl at Ferrari said..... they lied to the whole world to cover their a*** and telling others how to behave? well if i already didn't dislike Ferrari, i do certainly now because there is 1 thing i hate, ppl that lie and blaming others for being honest

Why should Ferrari apologize to him? Is there someone established that his statement was in fact, "A FACT"? FIA released a statement of their evaluation of Ferrari PU and said, it's confidential. How does that provide credibility for an immature statement?

Do you seriously believe in that or just playing a devil's advocate? As we all learn through life, there is much more hiding behind the scene and what mainstream media wants you to know...

[FittingMechanics]

An complicated suspension setup may be able to have higher toe at 10 degrees of lock, lower at 20 and again higher at 50. This would not be a monotonic function and it would be illegal.

Sometimes you don't want the toe to be reduced, you probably want toe increased before you reach the turn in point.

Hmmm. I did not think about potentially needing lower toe angle at higher lock. Kind of explains the existence of the system.

Just to clarify, I am not a race car or car engineer. I may be wrong. I am guessing that there is a reason it's not "baked in".

[GPR-A]

i requote my answer from earlier

Why should Ferrari apologize to him? Is there someone established that his statement was in fact, "A FACT"? FIA released a statement of their evaluation of Ferrari PU and said, it's confidential. How does that provide credibility for an immature statement?

Do you seriously believe in that or just playing a devil's advocate? As we all learn through life, there is much more hiding behind the scene and what mainstream media wants you to know...

Every team does things, including Red Bull in their heydays that is clearly, circumventing the rules written that provides ample opportunity to push the limits of the words. That is what F1 engineers live for and not for nothing that they earn their worth of salt. That is what makes the sport exciting. Until there is an established evidence to prove Ferrari did not comply with the rules in 2019, then everything is "Legal". Suspecting them to have done something illegal and going around peddling it, doesn't make it A FACT.

[dxpetrov]

We all know that "the evidence" will never come out to daylight as long as it undermines Ferrari's reputation. This is closely linked to FIA and F1 reputation, being the most important brand. One of the most common dilusion that is fed on that is completely weong expectation that Ferrari would be somehow the n1 challenger to Mercedes, year after year, even though the last time they actually won anything could be related to someone's memory capacity.

[GPR-A]

We all know that "the evidence" will never come out to daylight

Evidences do come out, when there is truth in it. Like "Spy Gate" in 2007, like Orchestrated crash in 2008 Singapore GP and many such incidents. If there is no "Evidence", it's just speculation.

So that qualifies Verstappen's "Cheating" allegation about Ferrari, as pure and immature, speculation. Why expect Ferrari to apologize to him (I am going back to the original point that I raised) for speculation?

[LM10]

[jumpingfish]

I made this data sheet from XLS file "2020 F1 pre-season test timing data". There were no Day1 morning data. Maximum speeds on onboards may differ from these speed traps. I know that high speed could be reached with slipstream, but everyone is in the same conditions.