Ideas to cut costs in F1

[CMSMJ1]

This is exactly why Max has broken F1.

He complains that manufacturers are spending millions down blind alleys due to the narrowing of the rules...and then when they say, hold up - we can save some money here..he gets all pig headed and says no.

The teams should scrap KERS if they think it is too expensive. They won't as they want to win..

They will cut their own throat to win and if they die trying..then c'est la vie.

[Birel99]

Max Mosley wrote

"This has created a mentality in Formula One where the engineers are really only comfortable in refinement.

"They don't really do innovation, and that is destroying Formula One."

So mad Max blames the teams for F1's current crisis.

I think its time for a REVOLUTION!

[WhiteBlue]

Rulemaking must be reliable and allow for planning safety. This means that changing rules within twelve months from racing requires the unanimous consent of all teams.

I is not cost that drives Ferrari to delay KERS. Their primary solution by Magneti Marelli has repeatedly hit the rocks in bench testing and they are frantically trying to develop a 2nd system parallel to the MM system.

This problem is compounded by the fact that there will be only four test sessions between now and the first race, which spells desaster for all teams that are late with KERS.

Naturally they are politicking to avoid Williams and BMW to forge ahead.

[autolover]

Super Aguri ,Honda....maybe more quit F1,especially in depression today!Cut costs is a significant and sole way.Some suggestions above may be effective!Restrict more, I think

[Birel99]

Im sorry for going a bit off topic but...

In the late 80's and early 90's what did the major teams spend in a season?

I just watched an old Mclaren video and they said that nearly every week they tested and had a specific test team in Japan for engine testing!

Thanks,

[modbaraban]

This has created a mentality in Formula One where the engineers are really only comfortable in refinement.

They don't really do innovation, and that is destroying Formula One.

That's THE quote of the week to say the least.

[i70q7m7ghw]

At the end of the day if the teams have got money to spend, they are going to f-ing spend it. It doesn't matter if you standardise everything, they'll just spend all the money they saved on coffee cups and coasters Seriously though I would expect they'd start bidding more on drivers using the cash they have going spare.

All of this stuff to restrict development of the cars has got out of hand, it started off in the name of safety and now it's evolved in to making them slower than GP2 cars!

I don't want to see ugly primitive single seaters sliding all over the track with overtaking resulting from the drivers not being able to keep the things going in straight line. I wan't to see 1000BHP rocket cars that stick to the track so much they snap the drivers necks through the corners.

At the rate we are going at the moment in 10 years time an F1 car will be 4 wheels and a 9 volt battery.

[Conceptual]

Hrmmm....

Seems that there may be some money making opportunity in this for the fans...

If someone set up a team to develop a Folding@Home (CPU/GPU) project that allowed the FANS to offer their home computers for CFD processing, I can see the need for $50MUSD super computers at every team disappearing.

Also, the company that specifically builds $1000-$5000 super CPU/GPU F@H workstations that can do ALOT of this type of work would also sell many of these units, since the 20TF limit wouldn't include the fanbase.

I actually started a company a few years ago called MyTeamPC, maybe it is time to dust it off, and offer something like this? See who the REAL fans are! I wonder how many people in this world would buy them? The teams could even get licensing fees for the logo'd cases...

Hrmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[Metar]

I was thinking about such a thing for a while - I'd love to donate my PC's spare flops towards CFD for the teams...

But would they share their info with anonymous PCs, potentially giving up secrets to rival teams? Perhaps encrypted work?

And could CFD-work be effectively "split" into several different calculations? I assume that even when you split it into half-half, the complex interactions will be missed unless it's all run together. I know even the ancient MATLAB came with split-computing functions: Surely the teams, which already operate thousands of cores at a time, could manage to split them?


As for that company - do you mean offering a whole machine, with team branding? I'm a big Renault fan, but even I wouldn't want that ING on my desk.

[Conceptual]

I was thinking about such a thing for a while - I'd love to donate my PC's spare flops towards CFD for the teams...

But would they share their info with anonymous PCs, potentially giving up secrets to rival teams? Perhaps encrypted work?

And could CFD-work be effectively "split" into several different calculations? I assume that even when you split it into half-half, the complex interactions will be missed unless it's all run together. I know even the ancient MATLAB came with split-computing functions: Surely the teams, which already operate thousands of cores at a time, could manage to split them?


As for that company - do you mean offering a whole machine, with team branding? I'm a big Renault fan, but even I wouldn't want that ING on my desk.

But maybe you WOULD want a Renault CFD workstation to show off to your friends since you are a SUPER fan? Maybe even SUPER enough to buy a rack of 10 units?

I can see AMD/ATI readily getting behind this since they are Ferrari (and other teams) sponsors? Intel for the BMW crowd?

I think if handled correctly, these files can be encrypted, and assembled on the teams mainframes. Remember, having one or two pieces of a million piece puzzle really wouldn't help rival teams. It would all come down to how the pieces were split up. Maybe even just running the same sim part a few thousand times may be beneficial, since it would give you more of a variety to build trend models...

I have also thought of this for a long time, even getting quotes from Chinese manufacturers about specialty graphics/stream PCI-E cards. I guess maybe we can make it a F1Technical.net project?

I am game if anyone else is interested in seriously doing something like this!

[Metar]

Only if the RenaultF1 logo wasn't ING-branded.


But yes. If this idea materializes, I'm buying one (need a new PC anyway in the next year or two - mine's already a few years old). I doubt teams will spring for that quite that early, but I'm already wasting hours a day with the PC barely doing any work, so I might as well help F1 make cheaper progress. Considering the advertisement benefits, teams and their sponsors might actually "subsidize" these, and offer cheapish high-end machines in return for x amount of calculations per month? I'm digging the idea of a Renault-sponsored i7 8800GT SLI setup. [-o<

They'll still have to get the hang of splitting CFD calculations into separate batches: I doubt our PCs could finish a high-quality simulation in less than a week of pure running, nevermind on/off screensaver-type work, and to run just a single part would be of little use, considering the airflow interacts between parts.

[Conceptual]

Only if the RenaultF1 logo wasn't ING-branded.


But yes. If this idea materializes, I'm buying one (need a new PC anyway in the next year or two - mine's already a few years old). I doubt teams will spring for that quite that early, but I'm already wasting hours a day with the PC barely doing any work, so I might as well help F1 make cheaper progress. Considering the advertisement benefits, teams and their sponsors might actually "subsidize" these, and offer cheapish high-end machines in return for x amount of calculations per month? I'm digging the idea of a Renault-sponsored i7 8800GT SLI setup. [-o<

They'll still have to get the hang of splitting CFD calculations into separate batches: I doubt our PCs could finish a high-quality simulation in less than a week of pure running, nevermind on/off screensaver-type work, and to run just a single part would be of little use, considering the airflow interacts between parts.

I believe that only ATI offers double precision GPU's, and the 8800GT is actually rather old now. I believe you would be after the Triple SLI G280's...

I don't see teams subsidizing, as much as making a profit from the licensing of their brand for these workstations. It would be a double whammy for the teams to cut costs by dropping to 20Tflops, and actually MAKING money by being branded on these PC's. It wouldn't be anything special, but you would need to have ATI 4xxx series, or nVidia G280 series for the DP calcs.

I can see the Overclockers having a field day with this by stretching their machines to the bleeding edge to squeeze out more cals per second, but I wonder if that may be the single point failure here...

Would it be possible for an OC'd machine to actually give false data? Especially if it was pushed too far.

Now AMD's new Deneb core, which has been OC'd to 6.123Ghz on liquid nitrogen in a quad crossfire setup with 4 of the new 4970x2's (RV775 coming 01/09) would give you a 2Tflop desktop for under $5k. Not bad when 10 of them ($50k USD) could max the new regs...

I wonder if Renault is chewing their liver over their $55M uber computer now?