FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

[dans79]

I don't think the protest can go anywhere; what would happen if the case is taken to the court?
FIA had a look at the fuel system of SF90 and couldn't find anything. Ferrari will definitely object demonstrating their fuel system to the competitors, on the grounds of revealing their technical know-how. In 2007 McLaren case there were some details disclosed, but they were relatively minor. And without the competitors' involvement, new pieces of evidence are unlikely to be found.
Something can be reached if fuel systems of all four manufacturers could be presented and compared, but is it possible?

I'm not sure why so many people keep alluding to Ferrari having to show their system if its taken to court.

In a case like this where intellectual property is a concern it is possible that a NDA bound 3rd party would be brought in to investigate.

Edit:
The NDA bound 3rd party is what the FIA is supposed to be, but imo they have failed horribly in this case.

[turbof1]

This thread can be quite interesting but some people with opposing views are dragging it down to personal insult and baiting level. Could you please all calm down and discuss without rancour. Thanks

Let me double up on this: any more insults or personal comments, will lead to closure of this thread and restriction on the talking topic itself. If people can't act as adults, we will treat them as children.

[PlatinumZealot]

This thread can be quite interesting but some people with opposing views are dragging it down to personal insult and baiting level. Could you please all calm down and discuss without rancour. Thanks

Let me double up on this: any more insults or personal comments, will lead to closure of this thread and restriction on the talking topic itself. If people can't act as adults, we will treat them as children.

Do not punish everyone, punish the offenders.
Evidence is clearly in front of you. No settlements necessary.

[timbo]

I'm not sure why so many people keep alluding to Ferrari having to show their system if its taken to court.

In a case like this where intellectual property is a concern it is possible that a NDA bound 3rd party would be brought in to investigate.

Edit:
The NDA bound 3rd party is what the FIA is supposed to be, but imo they have failed horribly in this case.

That's because I am skeptical that any other party other than the manufacturers involved in the production of the current breed of F1 engines are up to the task.
At least it took Honda with all its might and numerous previous successes 4 years to figure out the engine.

[Red Rock Mutley]

..This is a sporting process, not a legal process. The FIA does not have to adhere to conventional standards of legal proof. They sort of do, at least for matters of this importance...

...Imo, civil court is the bar the FIA needs to be held to. Specially when they routinely act like they are at that level.

In many ways both are correct statements. The FIA judicial process is not a court of law, however it is conducted to a standard that its judgements stand scrutiny if challenged at Court. Indeed any reputable governing body acts in that way, especially one operating in a highly litigious environment

The standard of proof is the civil test - judgements are made "on the balance of the evidence"; the lower threshold in effect, and not the criminal standard of "beyond all doubt"

That raises an important point - in declining to start judicial proceedings against Ferrari, the FIA were unable to satisfy themselves to the required standard that the regulations were probably breached

[bluechris]

If the other engine manufacturers want to know what Ferrari is doing the ALL of them can gather and collaborate in good faith explain each one in every detail how their engine works. After this transparency were everyone will understand every engine then they can reach to a conclusion who is on the limit by the rules or exceeding it. They dare to do that? Offcourse not, so why Ferrari need to show to everyone how his engine works is beyond me in this thread and in any place with analysis that is based off rumors or pointing fingers by horner or max or by Mercedes.
If they decided to brake FIA as it stands atm and make something else, they can man up and say it publicly. As it stands atm the FIA who is the governing body has decided and if you don't respect that then act accordingly.
Lets wait 7 more days to see what will happen. I strongly believe nothing will happen and we will proceed as the things are atm with a bit of moaning.
Maybe they were pushed for the 2021 rules and this backfires now but all the teams have done steps back and accepted things for 2021.

[dren]

It's not about teams wanting Ferrari 'secrets'. The teams spend hundreds of millions to partake in the sport. They want fair treatment by the regulator (FIA). They feel they aren't receiving that.

[timbo]

It's not about teams wanting Ferrari 'secrets'. The teams spend hundreds of millions to partake in the sport. They want fair treatment by the regulator (FIA). They feel they aren't receiving that.

Yes.
But to verify if indeed they were treated fairly there are no other options other than to get involved in technical details.

[dans79]

If the other engine manufacturers want to know what Ferrari is doing the ALL of them can gather and collaborate in good faith explain each one in every detail how their engine works. After this transparency were everyone will understand every engine then they can reach to a conclusion who is on the limit by the rules or exceeding it. They dare to do that? Offcourse not, so why Ferrari need to show to everyone how his engine works is beyond me in this thread and in any place with analysis that is based off rumors or pointing fingers by horner or max or by Mercedes.

For like the hundredth time no one is asking to see Ferrari's Pu details. They want to know that it's either legal or illegal, and they don't need to see it to know that.

[dans79]

That's because I am skeptical that any other party other than the manufacturers involved in the production of the current breed of F1 engines are up to the task.
At least it took Honda with all its might and numerous previous successes 4 years to figure out the engine.

The 3rd part isn't working in the dark though.

They would have access to all of Ferrari's technical drawings, data, and staff. With all of that available, the amount of expertise and time needed is significantly less.

[Just_a_fan]

I wouldn't be surprised if Ferrari faced a protest in Oz. Then they have to demonstrate to the stewards that the car is legal. No fudging allowed then.

[dans79]

I wouldn't be surprised if Ferrari faced a protest in Oz. Then they have to demonstrate to the stewards that the car is legal. No fudging allowed then.

I mentioned this earlier in the week. All seven teams can basically take turns protesting Ferrari, and with each new protest they would use a sloght derivation of the previous protest. It would make Ferrari and the FIA's lives he**.

[timbo]

That's because I am skeptical that any other party other than the manufacturers involved in the production of the current breed of F1 engines are up to the task.
At least it took Honda with all its might and numerous previous successes 4 years to figure out the engine.

The 3rd part isn't working in the dark though.

They would have access to all of Ferrari's technical drawings, data, and staff. With all of that available, the amount of expertise and time needed is significantly less.

FIA apparently already had all of that. I don't think FIA commission is fundamentally inept.

[Chene_Mostert]

I wouldn't be surprised if Ferrari faced a protest in Oz. Then they have to demonstrate to the stewards that the car is legal. No fudging allowed then.

but they already demonstrated it to the FIA. the stewards are part of the FIA?
The stewards will come up with exactly the same statement."we could find no material proof that the Ferrari PU operates outside of the regulation"

[Mrdobolina]

I wouldn't be surprised if Ferrari faced a protest in Oz. Then they have to demonstrate to the stewards that the car is legal. No fudging allowed then.

Wouldn't they have to have some basis for it though? Ferrari engine too stronk and smokes weird shouldn't be enough?