Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

[Andres125sx]

My post with just a link and a quote from the link about the new battery from Nikola was bound to offend someone???


Edit: Sorry Hollus, I´ve just arrived home and realized there was a tab with my reply, wich I didn´t send yet

[hollus]

I don’t know what post you are talking about, but no. My post above referred to several posts amounting to party X in country Y sucks.
That is 100% politics and thus against forum rules. No big deal, I hope.
If course a clean cut cannot be achieved in a subject like this, nor is it desired.
But please, everyone, keep purely political posts away.

[Andres125sx]

Sorry Hollus, I´ve just arrived home and realized there was a tab in my computer with my reply, wich I didn´t send yet This is the post:





A bit more info about Nikola´s new battery

The battery material makeup has not been announced but it does have lithium in it. We have removed most if not all nickel, cobalt, aluminum, and magnesium. The other parts of the batteries have not yet been revealed. That is all that has been disclosed from our engineering group. More information will be coming out soon.

https://insideevs.com/news/383702/nikol ... e-details/



BTW, not sure if I read it in this link or not, but I´ve read Nikola just aquired the startup wich developed the new battery

[henry]

If oil stays this low priced now that OPEC+ has fractured on policy, electric will get back burner'ed again.

It depends how reliant BEV sales are on running costs. While even Tesla make a big thing of them my experience with those friends that have BEVs it’s not a deal breaker. Maybe in 2 or 3 years time as they move into lower price brackets it might rear its head but I think regulation, both for suppliers and consumers will be much more important.

[kimetic]

It depends how reliant BEV sales are on running costs. While even Tesla make a big thing of them my experience with those friends that have BEVs it’s not a deal breaker. Maybe in 2 or 3 years time as they move into lower price brackets it might rear its head but I think regulation, both for suppliers and consumers will be much more important.

The biggest deterrent used to be the prospect of having to replace the battery, and that seems to have gone away now, with better temperature control and general development.

[Big Tea]

If oil stays this low priced now that OPEC+ has fractured on policy, electric will get back burner'ed again.

It depends how reliant BEV sales are on running costs. While even Tesla make a big thing of them my experience with those friends that have BEVs it’s not a deal breaker. Maybe in 2 or 3 years time as they move into lower price brackets it might rear its head but I think regulation, both for suppliers and consumers will be much more important.

To me, and I am talking 'budget' family cars here, the huge attraction to electric (and hybrid) is the standstill to 20 mph region, not the 'sporting' aspect or the economy, which is nice, but balanced out by the inconvenience of charging time and position. Had I never driven an EV, I can not say the attraction of lower running cost would win over 'instant' range.

In modern traffic the half second from standstill to moving is a huge step, psychologically and in actuality.

[Tommy Cookers]

...To me, and I am talking 'budget' family cars here, the huge attraction to electric (and hybrid) is the standstill to 20 mph region ...
In modern traffic the half second from standstill to moving is a huge step, psychologically and in actuality.

haven't you tried (ICE) automatic transmission ? - or CVT ?

in 1970 something my boss said to me ...
'if you try automatic - you won't ever go back to manual'
he was right
Honda tried to sell 'automatic' motorbikes at £1099 (I offered £899 - then too late for me they were reduced to £699)

the EV (in this respect) matches auto or CVT behaviour - but for some reason we say the EV is a marvel on this account ?

[henry]

...To me, and I am talking 'budget' family cars here, the huge attraction to electric (and hybrid) is the standstill to 20 mph region ...
In modern traffic the half second from standstill to moving is a huge step, psychologically and in actuality.

haven't you tried (ICE) automatic transmission ? - or CVT ?

in 1970 something my boss said to me ...
'if you try automatic - you won't ever go back to manual'
he was right

the EV replicates auto or CVT behaviour - but for some reason we say the EV is a marvel on this account ?

I’ve owned automatics and CVTs for 30 years. The current one, VWs DSG is far and away the best, but it still displays an occasional annoying habit of downshifting at inappropriate times. The two CVTs were both from Nissan the early one was excellent but slowish in its “downshift” response, the later one had been reprogrammed to make it less “continuous”, I guess to help sales with those who expect engine revs to rise with speed, and somewhat worse at “downshift”.

I don’t think an EV in anyway replicates these behaviours.

I’d agree with your boss. Even older autos were better than manual. The current DSG has “flappy paddle” override which gets used about once a month, sometimes just to check it’s working.

Edit: 30 years not 20.

[djos]

DSG is a dual clutch gearbox, not a CVT.

[kimetic]

haven't you tried (ICE) automatic transmission ? - or CVT ?

in 1970 something my boss said to me ...
'if you try automatic - you won't ever go back to manual'
he was right
Honda tried to sell 'automatic' motorbikes at £1099 (I offered £899 - then too late for me they were reduced to £699)

the EV (in this respect) matches auto or CVT behaviour - but for some reason we say the EV is a marvel on this account ?

The difference between an EV getaway off the line and an auto ICE is the same again as the difference between a manual and an auto. Until you've driven an EV you don't realise, what the lag is. By the time an ICE auto has selected first, wound up its torque converter and accelerated its pistons, the EV is 30 metres up the road.

[henry]

DSG is a dual clutch gearbox, not a CVT.

Is somebody arguing it is?

[djos]

DSG is a dual clutch gearbox, not a CVT.

Is somebody arguing it is?

Your wording is not great and makes it appear you are conflating the two.

[Big Tea]

...To me, and I am talking 'budget' family cars here, the huge attraction to electric (and hybrid) is the standstill to 20 mph region ...
In modern traffic the half second from standstill to moving is a huge step, psychologically and in actuality.

haven't you tried (ICE) automatic transmission ? - or CVT ?

in 1970 something my boss said to me ...
'if you try automatic - you won't ever go back to manual'
he was right
Honda tried to sell 'automatic' motorbikes at £1099 (I offered £899 - then too late for me they were reduced to £699)

the EV (in this respect) matches auto or CVT behaviour - but for some reason we say the EV is a marvel on this account ?

Yes, had CVT by ford, Nissan, Subaru etc and like them very much. Most of my cars for last 30 years have been Auto, I have neck problems so easier reversing initially, but as you say, I would not go back. As Henry says, so much better.
My brother had the Hondamatic cb400 Auto (dual speed) and while it was a real slug it was relaxing to ride.

With the EV there is no rev rise, it is like an on/off switch

[Andres125sx]

the EV (in this respect) matches auto or CVT behaviour - but for some reason we say the EV is a marvel on this account ?

The reason is because EV not only matches auto or CVT, they actually improve it because of the reasons Kimetic perfectly explained.

CVTs are a very good solution for a problem (narrow rpm band of ICEs), while EVs eradicate the problem from the root, so there´s no need to find any solution wich increases pieces, maintenance and failure posibilities.

I´d say that´s a good definition of marvel in engineering

[Tommy Cookers]

.... Until you've driven an EV you don't realise, what the lag is.....

does the EV have no creep ? (and no rollback either unless slope is significant ?) - so the brakes are off at rest ?

I find auto creep rather useful
does EV super response help when you've pulled away close behind someone who then faffs around with the stick ?

though controllability around town was better with older autos - is this now to be called 'lag' ? and therefore is bad ?
modern automatics use throttle mapping to enable manual-spec engines - not entirely helping town controllability imo