Open Aero Developement for '99 Benetton

[Conceptual]

Is this something that may be best to contact the Renault team directly about? Maybe they wouldn't mind giving up some of their aero data from a 10 year old car? Possibly they have some left over parts/upgrades that are not on your package?

I don't know where the car was purchased from, but if you own it, I would swing at contacting Renault F1 and see if there is any information that they can provide to you. Maybe even for FREE!!!

[AeroGT3]

Scott, please respond to a PM I've sent you when you get the chance. Thanks!

[greenpower dude reloaded]

I'll be honest I haven't read the rules, and i really should before I comment, but is a canopy out of the question? I'd also suggest looking in to old interserie cars such as these http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/M ... photo.html I may be able to put you in touch with a team's owner/technical director if your interested, PM me if you are. He also used to run a team in Euroboss, on Bio ethanol!

He said they made huge gains in rear downforce by putting a "mudgaurd" over the rear wheels http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/1 ... 07-006.jpg

out of all of the suggestions i've seen so far this is potentially the easiest
is it possible to cover up the centre of the wheels a bit? it's one of the biggest areas on our EV's that need sorting before we even consider hitting the track. Team Bentley said it was worth a huge amount having run CFD on they're E-Racer at 35mph.

[PNSD]

From the rules posted earlier, if the aero rules are as open as they say then shrouding wheels are probably one of the best things to do!!!

Also would ground effects be out of question?? I know it would be difficult to implement depending on budget and testing but wow would that improve aero performance.

Some of those pics with covered wheels are interesting. Pretty much LMP's with F1 performance :p

Something like this would be awesome for drag reduction I imagine!

http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/1 ... 07-008.jpg

[machin]

HHhhmmmm covered wheels indeed would be good... but interesting to read this thread:-

viewtopic.php?p=89236&f=1#p89236

...I wonder what would happen if you turned up with them on? I think you'd be asked to remove them.... as they're not "in the spirit" of single seater racing...

...Bigger rear wing end plates on the other hand....

[machin]

Interestingly, in semi answer to my own question above, the rules say:-

4(1) Introduction:
It should be clearly understood by all concerned that if the following texts do not clearly specify
that you can do it then you should work on the principle that you cannot.

It doesn't clearly say you can make ANY modifications... although it does say the body is free, Section 4(5),....

[theDr]

Are there any decent pictures of the 99 Benetton anywhere please

[Conceptual]

I'll be honest I haven't read the rules, and i really should before I comment, but is a canopy out of the question? I'd also suggest looking in to old interserie cars such as these http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/M ... photo.html I may be able to put you in touch with a team's owner/technical director if your interested, PM me if you are. He also used to run a team in Euroboss, on Bio ethanol!

He said they made huge gains in rear downforce by putting a "mudgaurd" over the rear wheels http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/1 ... 07-006.jpg

out of all of the suggestions i've seen so far this is potentially the easiest
is it possible to cover up the centre of the wheels a bit? it's one of the biggest areas on our EV's that need sorting before we even consider hitting the track. Team Bentley said it was worth a huge amount having run CFD on they're E-Racer at 35mph.

The car in that pic is great! I'm wondering if maybe I should move my interest from F1 over to the EuroBoss series... It looks like it would lead to alot of fun!

[Conceptual]

Oddly, it looks an aweful lot like the 2009 cars!

[axle]

What do the rules say about weight?

I think the best thing you'll do and get away with is the ride height drop. If the diffuser is part of the bottom changing that would be extremely difficult though it would be the best way to make real gains.

[Scuderia_Russ]

Scott,

Personally I will be surprised if, even ten years on, a small team with a limited budget will be able to enhance an F1 car constructed with a budget running into the multi millions and a couple of hundred strong team. I would like to be proven wrong on this one though.

If I were you I would try to invest part of your budget into a proper aero consultancy with established staff that have a proven track record.

...not to mention a good race engineer!

[machin]

Personally I will be surprised if, even ten years on, a small team with a limited budget will be able to enhance an F1 car constructed with a budget running into the multi millions and a couple of hundred strong team

Can't really argue with that... even if you have the skills/facilities/resources to even make the shapes that the 2007-2008 cars have adorning their bodies, without CFD or wind tunnel time how do you know what shapes to make to actually provide a benefit? That's why you can't really do flip-ups/turning vanes, etc that some people have suggested...

However remember that the Benetton F1 team in 1999 were working to a specific set of rules, and without these rules it should be possible to apply some generalised aerodynamic principles to (Hopefully!) improve things... without CFD and/or wind tunnel you won't know for sure until the mods are tried on the car though...

Some of the things already mentioned should bring improvements, if resources allow:-

Lowering the front wing (but ensuring you don't block off air flow when the car is pitching or under full aero load!)

Changing the diffuser design (steeper/longer -yes this might change the balance, but assuming you can change the front wing flap angle then you should(!) be able to get the balance back).

Widening the front and rear wings... in order to maintain the same level of downforce you can make the chord shorter... wide wings with short chords are supposedly more efficient, so for the same downforce you'd get less drag).

Increasing the height and length of wing end plates should (I say it again!) improve the efficiency of the wing, thus a lower angle is needed for the same downforce, therefore producing less drag)

Reduce the size of any wing mirrors (but still maintaing good rear visibility!)

Change the suspension arms so they have a more aerodynamic section

Remove any camera pods, if fitted!

The above list were all items constrained by the rules in 1999, and I imagaine are all "bolt-on" components, so could be changed at the track if the mods were found not be of benefit.....

[Conceptual]

I still think that you should email Pat Symonds and ask him if he can offer any suggestions.

[scottmansell]

Hi Guys,

Thank you very much for all of the info. Some of it we had previously tried on the '97 car, some of it we may try on the '99 car.

With regard to:

Personally I will be surprised if, even ten years on, a small team with a limited budget will be able to enhance an F1 car constructed with a budget running into the multi millions and a couple of hundred strong team

We are not trying to improve fundamental designs that Benetton produced, but we don't have the same rule constraints, as I previously mentioned.

I have had a few designers PM me and I think there may be some exciting possibilities there. I will keep you updated!

Thanks Again,

Scott

[machin]

That was Scuderia Russ that wrote that! I agreed in my last post there was plenty of scope for improvement just be ignoring the rules that Benetton had to work to and applying some general rules of aerodynamics!

Anyway, will be interesting to hear what improvements you make and the performance benefits you see from them... I'm sure I speak for everyone on here when I say it'be be great to hear actual performance improvements that come with each mod... if you'd be happy to divulge?!