COVID-19 could affect more races this year.

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LM10
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Re: COVID-19 could affect more races this year.

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Horrific updates from Italy: 5986 new cases, 627 new deaths.

Bill
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It's terrible those who succumb to the disease should around 2% not 10% .Apparently they are 3 strain of the virus and italy got the worst.

DChemTech
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Re: COVID-19 could affect more races this year.

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Bill wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 19:34
It's terrible those who succumb to the disease should around 2% not 10% .Apparently they are 3 strain of the virus and italy got the worst.
Remember this is case fatality rate. It only counts confirmed cases, nobody knows how many infections there are. Germany has over 17k infections and some 50 casualties. Germany also tested more people than the rest of the EU combined.

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Big Tea
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Do you have a source for 'more deadly'?
More infective, sure, I can see that from a Darwinian perspective. Any virus that is more infective will increase numbers more rapidly and outcompete other strains.
Mutations for more deadly, from a Darwinian perspective, may not be beneficial for the organism however. After all, more deadly often means more visible - more visible means more distancing by others, making it more difficult for the virus to spread. Kill your host quicker and you also have more time to spread. This was, as far as I know, one of the reasons why the more deadly SARS and MERS infections were contained more easily. It's also why common cold and flu are so successful - they don't make the host too sick, so the host may continue to mingle with other people while already infected.
[/quote]


I just used it as a figure of speech rather than rather than an actual metric, but even if it fills half as many % but infects twice as many ...

There is an article here. But it is not the one I was reading. TBH I have read so many lately I am swamped.

https://towardsdatascience.com/machine- ... f93cfaf544

From the link

Each one of the rows represents one mutation of the bat virus. First, just take a minute to admire how incredible nature is — within a few weeks, the coronavirus has already created 262 mutations (and counting) of itself to increase survival rates.
Last edited by Big Tea on 20 Mar 2020, 19:48, edited 1 time in total.
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Phil
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Re: COVID-19 could affect more races this year.

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DChemTech wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 19:44
Remember this is case fatality rate. It only counts confirmed cases, nobody knows how many infections there are. Germany has over 17k infections and some 50 casualties. Germany also tested more people than the rest of the EU combined.
Germany is 2 weeks behind. 2 weeks ago, the number of fatalities were also much lower in Italy. As has been mentioned before, people don't just die within 2 days once testing positive. Reaching conclusions about higher or lower dead rate in Germany are therefore premature. It is correct though that in Italy, many are dying as a direct result of insufficient resources (overloaded health system) though and probably a higher percentage of elderly being affected.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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DChemTech
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Re: COVID-19 could affect more races this year.

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Phil wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 19:48
DChemTech wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 19:44
Remember this is case fatality rate. It only counts confirmed cases, nobody knows how many infections there are. Germany has over 17k infections and some 50 casualties. Germany also tested more people than the rest of the EU combined.
Germany is 2 weeks behind. 2 weeks ago, the number of fatalities were also much lower in Italy. As has been mentioned before, people don't just die within 2 days once testing positive. Reaching conclusions about higher or lower dead rate in Germany are therefore premature. It is correct though that in Italy, many are dying as a direct result of insufficient resources (overloaded health system) though and probably a higher percentage of elderly being affected.
I know that, but that doesn't affect what I said. The registered case fatality rate is strongly affected by the number of tested - which is a limiting factor. I know 4 persons in my surroundings now that possibly have the virus (of which one very, very likely), none of those are counted because they have not been tested. Now, this is anecdotal and has no quantitative value of course, but it illustrates the issue.

Germany, having tested more than anyone else, likely has a better view than anyone on how many cases there actually are. Sure, if the number of infections would freeze today, part of those already infected would still die. Yet, it seems unlikely that they would reach a 10% mortality rate like Italy is reporting, by the simple metric that Germany has a more complete case registration. And note, I do absolutely think the situation in Italy is horrible. That does not mean we should not put the numbers into proper context. That includes the different timing, the different demographics, but also the different testing coverage.

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Big Tea
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DChemTech wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 19:59
Phil wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 19:48
DChemTech wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 19:44
Remember this is case fatality rate. It only counts confirmed cases, nobody knows how many infections there are. Germany has over 17k infections and some 50 casualties. Germany also tested more people than the rest of the EU combined.
Germany is 2 weeks behind. 2 weeks ago, the number of fatalities were also much lower in Italy. As has been mentioned before, people don't just die within 2 days once testing positive. Reaching conclusions about higher or lower dead rate in Germany are therefore premature. It is correct though that in Italy, many are dying as a direct result of insufficient resources (overloaded health system) though and probably a higher percentage of elderly being affected.
I know that, but that doesn't affect what I said. The registered case fatality rate is strongly affected by the number of tested - which is a limiting factor. I know 4 persons in my surroundings now that possibly have the virus (of which one very, very likely), none of those are counted because they have not been tested. Now, this is anecdotal and has no quantitative value of course, but it illustrates the issue.

Germany, having tested more than anyone else, likely has a better view than anyone on how many cases there actually are. Sure, if the number of infections would freeze today, part of those already infected would still die. Yet, it seems unlikely that they would reach a 10% mortality rate like Italy is reporting, by the simple metric that Germany has a more complete case registration. And note, I do absolutely think the situation in Italy is horrible. That does not mean we should not put the numbers into proper context.
W>H>O seem to be taking South Korea data as they did extreme high testing number with very good test kits.

It may well be out of date now though
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Phil
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DChemTech wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 19:59
Germany, having tested more than anyone else, likely has a better view than anyone on how many cases there actually are.
Germany cant test everyone too and i know people who likely have it there, but cant get a test. I’m just saying that comparing two different countries on different time lines will net you wrong conclusions. The fatality number is going to continue to grow (exponential) as the number of cases does as well as after the illness has progressed for a couple of days.

Here in Switzerland, our numbers are in no way representative either, as we are not fast enough with “counting” along with limited supply of tests.

You cant cheat the number of fatalities though and that number may give a more accurate picture of how many could be infected (doing the math in reverse).

Ultimately, my point is that what is happening in Italy is shocking, but we are yet to find out if what is happening there will happen here too once we have progressed to the same stage of the outbreak. E.g. once a critical number of infected are reached with severe symptoms and health systems at the limit of what they are capable of.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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PlatinumZealot
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Bill wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 19:34
It's terrible those who succumb to the disease should around 2% not 10% .Apparently they are 3 strain of the virus and italy got the worst.
10% of those who make it to get tested. That's the difference. It could mean that there are waaaay more infected that haven't tested as yet. We also know a large majority are old folks too. These people might get first priority on the test kits as well.
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aral
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italy has a high mortality rate due to the fact that italy has the oldest average age of anywhere in europe, so more elderly unable to have an adequate immune system.
as regards 3 strains of the virus? where did that come from? no mention that i can ind saying that.

wesley123
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Blackout wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 18:00
wesley123 wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 16:00
What you don't seem to understand is that you cannot keep a lockdown long enough. A cure is a year away, in a best case scenario. Do you want to keep a lockdown for a year? Good luck on that.
Source?
Unless this is the first cure that is gonna get developed within a year, I don't see that happening. Developing cures generally takes longer periods of time because it involves a lot of testing.

There's a lot of news saying that 'a treatment has been found', but generally this involves a small amount of people and still requires more testing.

https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/28/2115 ... r-research
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/ ... oronavirus
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mmred
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I can Only Say we don't know the real data, we ll probably never know due to the level of panic management involved. Finger crossed and thrust the authorities

izzy
izzy
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Big Tea wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 19:44
There is an article here. But it is not the one I was reading. TBH I have read so many lately I am swamped.

https://towardsdatascience.com/machine- ... f93cfaf544

From the link

Each one of the rows represents one mutation of the bat virus. First, just take a minute to admire how incredible nature is — within a few weeks, the coronavirus has already created 262 mutations (and counting) of itself to increase survival rates.
that is a very awesome link. Sars-CoV-2 does mutate a LOT doesn't it. They make a new flu vaccine every year tho don't they, because that virus mutates, so hopefully it's something that can still be vaccinated against

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Big Tea
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izzy wrote:
21 Mar 2020, 00:05
Big Tea wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 19:44
There is an article here. But it is not the one I was reading. TBH I have read so many lately I am swamped.

https://towardsdatascience.com/machine- ... f93cfaf544

From the link

Each one of the rows represents one mutation of the bat virus. First, just take a minute to admire how incredible nature is — within a few weeks, the coronavirus has already created 262 mutations (and counting) of itself to increase survival rates.
that is a very awesome link. Sars-CoV-2 does mutate a LOT doesn't it. They make a new flu vaccine every year tho don't they, because that virus mutates, so hopefully it's something that can still be vaccinated against
There are 4 ways to 'make' a vaccine, and (I think) only one of them is upset by the mutation unless it is a very big step

https://www.vaccines.gov/basics/types

Based on a number of these factors, scientists decide which type of vaccine they will make. There are 4 main types of vaccines:

Live-attenuated vaccines
Inactivated vaccines
Subunit, recombinant, polysaccharide, and conjugate vaccines
Toxoid vaccines



The Ferrari family have promised 10 million to help, and some news items saying 4 F1 teams ready to start production on ventilators
Last edited by Big Tea on 21 Mar 2020, 00:28, edited 1 time in total.
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3jawchuck
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This also shows how it mutates and spreads: https://nextstrain.org/ncov