The Sky panels Top 5 drivers.

[Wass85]

An interesting but quite predicable top 5 all time list from Brundle, Chandok and Button.

I do agree with Martin Brundle though, you could just about put forward an argument for every world champion.

Some brilliant drivers have only had the car to win the title for the one season or sometimes not even that.

Also what is the point in time where drivers just can't be compared as Jenson said, different cars, drivers and different sport.

Today the cars are much easier to drive and forgiving but on the other hand it is much harder for your talent to shine through due to all the data the teams gather.

[3jawchuck]

I have no patience for the podcast format, can anyone list their top 5?

My guess is some mix of Senna, Fangio, Prost, Stewart and Schumacher. Of which only 1 (maybe 2) of those I believe belongs in the top 5. I won't say who, because my opinion is not really justifiable by any means and I don't fancy the argument.

I can see where this thread will end up :/

[Wass85]

I have no patience for the podcast format, can anyone list their top 5?

My guess is some mix of Senna, Fangio, Prost, Stewart and Schumacher. Of which only 1 (maybe 2) of those I believe belongs in the top 5. I won't say who, because my opinion is not really justifiable by any means and I don't fancy the argument.

I can see where this thread will end up :/

It's all subjective anyway, stats of course don't tell the full picture.

What is interesting is that you can't compare a Hamilton with a Fangio but you can with a Senna, where is that invisible line drawn though? It's like an unwritten rule that we can't explain but we all understand.

My personal top 6 are similar to Button's.

In no particular order.

1. Senna.
2. Schumacher.
3. Hamilton.
4. Prost.
5. Alonso.
6. Verstappen.

[markc]

I'm always amazed how little Lauda seems to get mentioned in these sorts of things - 3 times champion in 2 decades, 9 years between first and last, a terrible, terrible accident, and then racing far sooner than the doctors wanted/anticipated, and only loosing to Hunt by a point after all that! He then wins it the following year. Just amazing. So good Hollywood gave some treatment to the story.
For the remaining 4 it would have to be drivers I'd seen race for a whole season, my era as it were: Prost, Senna, Schumacher and Hamilton.
anyway my 2p's worth!

[Jolle]

would be fun to make a list of which driver drives with what body part. like:

Head:
- Prost
- Lauda
- Schumacher
- Alonso

Heart:
- Senna
- Verstappen
- Hamilton

Balls:
- Hunt
- G. Villeneuve
- Mansell



etc etc etc

[ENGINE TUNER]

Best of their generation
Fangio
Clark
Stewart
Lauda
Senna
Schumacher
Hamilton

[Wass85]

I'm always amazed how little Lauda seems to get mentioned in these sorts of things - 3 times champion in 2 decades, 9 years between first and last, a terrible, terrible accident, and then racing far sooner than the doctors wanted/anticipated, and only loosing to Hunt by a point after all that! He then wins it the following year. Just amazing. So good Hollywood gave some treatment to the story.
For the remaining 4 it would have to be drivers I'd seen race for a whole season, my era as it were: Prost, Senna, Schumacher and Hamilton.
anyway my 2p's worth!

Yes he is overlooked for his driving and remembered moreso for his heroics but he must have had some real talent.

I didn't really follow his title campaign against Prost, did he actually out drive Prost or was it just a case of better reliability?

[Wass85]

Best of their generation
Fangio
Clark
Stewart
Lauda
Senna
Schumacher
Hamilton

In all seriousness that's all you can ask of a driver, get in the right car and the right time and providing you are consistent you will go down as an ATG.

[izzy]

I'm always amazed how little Lauda seems to get mentioned in these sorts of things - 3 times champion in 2 decades, 9 years between first and last, a terrible, terrible accident, and then racing far sooner than the doctors wanted/anticipated, and only loosing to Hunt by a point after all that! He then wins it the following year. Just amazing. So good Hollywood gave some treatment to the story.

yes great point! Niki is in this class isn't he. Perhaps he's a bit like Alonso with not fulfilling his career in the right teams

like @Engine Tuner i don't think you can compare generations very easily. i mean how big was the talent pool in Fangio's time? Senna used to make a lot of mistakes by modern standards but they all did. Schumacher i disqualify as although he had fabulous talent and such an all-court game he didn't just try to win within the rules and it is a sport. Prost wasn't quite as quick as Senna. Clark does transcend the generations i think and Stewart wasn't quite as good as him. Lewis, well i do think he is the best so far, he has fantastic judgment on track as well as the pace and is so consistent and up until Germany had won every wet race since forever. Alonso was fantastic and fair on track which matters a lot to me, very clever and intense and consistent, just not quite with Lewis' sheer pace.

So now we have the best, imo, vs the new generation who might become the best, aren't we lucky

[Just_a_fan]

Interesting couple of omissions. No one has mentioned Graham Hill so far. 2 titles and the only Triple Crown winner or Jack Brabham - 3 titles and the only man ever to win the title in his own car. Both impressive stand outs.

But the real stand outs have to be Fangio and Moss. Stirling Moss would have won the title but gave positive testimony about Hawthorn when the latter faced a penalty. Had he not, Moss would have won the title in 1958. Moss should be mentioned purely on good sportsmanship grounds, but one only has to look at his racing record across every class to see the man was right up there in the Pantheon, even though he was a "failure" in terms of F1 titles.

Go to the wiki page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stirling_Moss and read his racing record. Go to the wiki page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Manuel_Fangio and read that racing record. Compare those to any of the modern "greats" and laugh. Now you know what "racing great" means. These guys won in everything and at a time when death openly stalked the paddock.

I think Hamilton is a modern great, perhaps the greatest of his generation. But I wouldn't put him in the same room as Fangio and Moss.

[Wass85]

Interesting couple of omissions. No one has mentioned Graham Hill so far. 2 titles and the only Triple Crown winner or Jack Brabham - 3 titles and the only man ever to win the title in his own car. Both impressive stand outs.

But the real stand outs have to be Fangio and Moss. Stirling Moss would have won the title but gave positive testimony about Hawthorn when the latter faced a penalty. Had he not, Moss would have won the title in 1958. Moss should be mentioned purely on good sportsmanship grounds, but one only has to look at his racing record across every class to see the man was right up there in the Pantheon, even though he was a "failure" in terms of F1 titles.

Go to the wiki page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stirling_Moss and read his racing record. Go to the wiki page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Manuel_Fangio and read that racing record. Compare those to any of the modern "greats" and laugh. Now you know what "racing great" means. These guys won in everything and at a time when death openly stalked the paddock.

I think Hamilton is a modern great, perhaps the greatest of his generation. But I wouldn't put him in the same room as Fangio and Moss.

I just don't think you can even began to compare them, they raced in an era nothing like each other.

I'm not a betting man but I say the standard of drivers are at a much higher level skill wise then drivers in the 50's and such.

[Jolle]

I think drivers should always be judged compared with their direct rivals, at least the great. With every generation drivers get faster, better prepared and more all round. Look how Schumacher upped the game with his physical fitness or Hamilton with his perfect season.

[ENGINE TUNER]

I think drivers should always be judged compared with their direct rivals, at least the great. With every generation drivers get faster, better prepared and more all round. Look how Schumacher upped the game with his physical fitness or Hamilton with his perfect season.

Schumacher was no more fit than Senna who himself wasn't much more fit than Prost.

[ENGINE TUNER]

I didn't really follow his title campaign against Prost, did he actually out drive Prost or was it just a case of better reliability?

Prost was much faster, it was quite clear that Lauda was past his prime, but Prost made more mistakes and had more incidents. Plus they called the wet Monaco race early only giving Prost half points for the win.

[DChemTech]

Fangio
Prost
Clark
Senna
Alonso

Science proves it : https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... _1950-2014 (OK, until 2014 at least - I suppose Hamilton at least passed Vettel if you do the analysis now).

Yes, Schumacher would be top 3 if you would disregard the Mercedes days. But he did choose to drive for Mercedes, so it wouldn't be fair to do so. Besides that, the analysis is based on performance compared to teammates, assuming equal material - and it's well known that, at least in the Benetton days, he was not driving equal material (then again, that will probably apply to more drivers. Ok, reason 3 I don't -want- to see Schumacher in the top 3 is that I strongly dislike how he drove under some circumstances - as Izzy alluded to above).