The Sky panels Top 5 drivers.

[Just_a_fan]

The f1 eras dont overlap well with the decades. Senna for instance he is one the fence between the 80's and the 90's.

Schumacher only covered the first half of 2000's. The second was definitely Alonso. Hakkinen wasn't really a performer at all. Maybe is best to group them by some sort of era or generations.

Hakkinen won two world titles on the bounce. If that's not performing, I'd hate to see what is.

Alonso won one race in the first half, one in the second half of the 2000s so he's not a performer either (according to the definition applied to Hakkinen).

The second half of the 2000s was much more typical of F1 titles where drivers alternated. Back-to-back or more wasn't that usual during the 60s, 70s and most of the 80s. In the 50s it was, but only because you had Fangio and Ascari who both won back-to-back (or better). Brabham, too, of course in 59/60.

Looking at the way the titles are distributed over time, we might say that the runs of multiple titles coincide with times of professionalism. The early days were dominated by manufacturers such as Alfa, Ferrari, Mercedes etc. None of those horrible garagistas back then. Then they took over and titles were spread around. Then we saw a return to high levels of professionalism in the likes of McLaren under Ron Dennis. Attention to details and manufacturers coming back with decent engines (Honda in the McLaren and Renault in the Williams. Ferrari's early 2000s dominance was down to the professionalism and guidance of Brawn etc. That and bespoke tyres and test-as-much-as-you-like.

[Pyrone89]

would be fun to make a list of which driver drives with what body part. like:

Head:
- Prost
- Lauda
- Schumacher
- Alonso

Heart:
- Senna
- Verstappen
- Hamilton

Balls:
- Hunt
- G. Villeneuve
- Mansell



etc etc etc

Actually quit an accurate list

[Pyrone89]

I think Alonso is a heart driver. Definitely not a head driver. He got tricked on track, and tricked in the paddock a handful of times. You could even say he has tricked himself too!

Button is definitely Head.

Hamiton.... I think he was a heart driver but only until after he teamed with Button. He relaised heart a lone wont cut it. And He transformed himself a Head driver since. If we look back on it, he has played the paddock politics well. Mastered social media, driver sponsorships. He has psychologically defeated his opponents on track (Nico, Vettel, Bottas 2.0. And he has mastered these "thinking man" regulations with how he manages fuel and tyres.

Max.... Is all heart for the time being. Not sure he has done anything drastically ballsy as yet. But I think he has it in him.


A ballsy champion?? Hmm.. I would say Nico Rosberg. It took a lot of Balls to transform himself and do what he did. Sadly his buldging balls shrunk a like raisin in the sun after he won the championship.

Outside of Blanchimont?

[NathanOlder]

The f1 eras dont overlap well with the decades. Senna for instance he is one the fence between the 80's and the 90's.

Schumacher only covered the first half of 2000's. The second was definitely Alonso. Hakkinen wasn't really a performer at all. Maybe is best to group them by some sort of era or generations.

Hakkinen won two world titles on the bounce. If that's not performing, I'd hate to see what is.

Alonso won one race in the first half, one in the second half of the 2000s so he's not a performer either (according to the definition applied to Hakkinen).

The second half of the 2000s was much more typical of F1 titles where drivers alternated. Back-to-back or more wasn't that usual during the 60s, 70s and most of the 80s. In the 50s it was, but only because you had Fangio and Ascari who both won back-to-back (or better). Brabham, too, of course in 59/60.

Looking at the way the titles are distributed over time, we might say that the runs of multiple titles coincide with times of professionalism. The early days were dominated by manufacturers such as Alfa, Ferrari, Mercedes etc. None of those horrible garagistas back then. Then they took over and titles were spread around. Then we saw a return to high levels of professionalism in the likes of McLaren under Ron Dennis. Attention to details and manufacturers coming back with decent engines (Honda in the McLaren and Renault in the Williams. Ferrari's early 2000s dominance was down to the professionalism and guidance of Brawn etc. That and bespoke tyres and test-as-much-as-you-like.

I think he meant that Hakkinen wasn't a performer in the 00's. If Hakkinen was a performer is a decade, it was 100% the 90's. Another one for me is Prost, 80's all day. not the 90's like was mentioned above.

[bill shoe]

Regarding Lauda at McLaren in 1984-

I didn't really follow his title campaign against Prost, did he actually out drive Prost or was it just a case of better reliability?

A little of both. I think it was very similar to Rosberg winning the championship over Hamilton a couple years ago.

I vaguely recall that Prost had a couple of unlucky breaks over the course of the season. One example is the very wet race at Monaco, where the race was suspiciously stopped just as Senna was about to catch Prost for the lead. This gave the win to Prost, but it meant half-points were awarded which ultimately cost Prost the title to Lauda.

I think Prost was generally the better driver, but he had all season to overcome the Monaco half-points and a couple reliability issues, and he was not able to do it. In contrast I think Lauda pretty well used all his talent to maximize points all season long and therefore he truly earned the title.

It's actually very impressive to see a driver with a tiny bit less natural talent & speed pull one over on the "better" driver. The better driver had all season long to get it right, but simply did not get the job done.

Prost/McLaren essentially pulled the same stunt on Williams two years later in 1986 when Prost pulled a title from what was clearly a better team.

[Wass85]

Regarding Lauda at McLaren in 1984-

I didn't really follow his title campaign against Prost, did he actually out drive Prost or was it just a case of better reliability?

A little of both. I think it was very similar to Rosberg winning the championship over Hamilton a couple years ago.

I vaguely recall that Prost had a couple of unlucky breaks over the course of the season. One example is the very wet race at Monaco, where the race was suspiciously stopped just as Senna was about to catch Prost for the lead. This gave the win to Prost, but it meant half-points were awarded which ultimately cost Prost the title to Lauda.

I think Prost was generally the better driver, but he had all season to overcome the Monaco half-points and a couple reliability issues, and he was not able to do it. In contrast I think Lauda pretty well used all his talent to maximize points all season long and therefore he truly earned the title.

It's actually very impressive to see a driver with a tiny bit less natural talent & speed pull one over on the "better" driver. The better driver had all season long to get it right, but simply did not get the job done.

Prost/McLaren essentially pulled the same stunt on Williams two years later in 1986 when Prost pulled a title from what was clearly a better team.

Yep, we can blame the break down in Malaysia for Hamilton losing the title but he should have done more throughout the season to cover that.

He was very fast that year in qualifying and race pace but how many points did he throw away with terrible starts.

I would like to watch the 84 season, it's funny how Prost did exactly the same to Senna in the future.

[Just_a_fan]

Prost/McLaren essentially pulled the same stunt on Williams two years later in 1986 when Prost pulled a title from what was clearly a better team.

In 86, Prost benefited from Mansell's tyre exploding in Australia. But for that Mansell would have been champion that year. Of course, Williams pitted Piquet, understandably, after Mansell's puncture and that helped Prost too.

[Just_a_fan]

Yep, we can blame the break down in Malaysia for Hamilton losing the title but he should have done more throughout the season to cover that.

He was very fast that year in qualifying and race pace but how many points did he throw away with terrible starts.

He won 10 races to Nico's 9 and it would have been 11 to 9 had it not been for the Malaysia failure. Note that Nico only came 3rd in that race even with Hamilton's failure. Also, Hamilton only failed to win from pole twice, the same as Nico.

Both had a 7th and a 5th place, but Hamilton was top three (or retired) all the rest. Nico had a couple of 4th places along with 2 retirements (one fewer than Hamilton, of course).

When you look at it in detail, you see that Hamilton's season was slightly better but he had that retirement from the lead and that cost him 25 points. It also gave Nico an extra 3 points. Without that, Hamilton would have won the title by 22 points. That's just the way the cookie crumbles sometimes.

Not that it matters. Nico is the 2016 champion and no amount of gum sucking now will change it.

[Wass85]

Yep, we can blame the break down in Malaysia for Hamilton losing the title but he should have done more throughout the season to cover that.

He was very fast that year in qualifying and race pace but how many points did he throw away with terrible starts.

He won 10 races to Nico's 9 and it would have been 11 to 9 had it not been for the Malaysia failure. Note that Nico only came 3rd in that race even with Hamilton's failure. Also, Hamilton only failed to win from pole twice, the same as Nico.

Both had a 7th and a 5th place, but Hamilton was top three (or retired) all the rest. Nico had a couple of 4th places along with 2 retirements (one fewer than Hamilton, of course).

When you look at it in detail, you see that Hamilton's season was slightly better but he had that retirement from the lead and that cost him 25 points. It also gave Nico an extra 3 points. Without that, Hamilton would have won the title by 22 points. That's just the way the cookie crumbles sometimes.

Not that it matters. Nico is the 2016 champion and no amount of gum sucking now will change it.

Yes and how many did Nico likely win because of Lewis' terrible starts? At the time I had the feeling the team and him weren't getting on and that they could have helped him fix these bad starts quicker.

[Wass85]

Let's be honest plenty of other world champions could have added more to their talky, coulda, woulda, shouda.

[Just_a_fan]

Yes and how many did Nico likely win because of Lewis' terrible starts? At the time I had the feeling the team and him weren't getting on and that they could have helped him fix these bad starts quicker.

Which starts are you talking about specifically? For example, in Spain, Hamilton got away as well as Nico but Nico then tucked in behind, got the tow and then took the long line around the outside.That wasn't a bad start, it was a bloody good move from Rosberg. It's just a shame that he messed up his settings (did that actually help him in the tow?) and then took them both out by hamfisted defending.

In Bahrain, Nico got the drop on Hamilton at the start, fair and square. But Hamilton was taken out by Bottas and although he finished 3rd eventually, would probably have harried Nico just as previously if he'd not been hit by Bottas.

I actually think that the one bad episode that season for Hamilton was in Baku. His mistake in qualifying, and it was a mistake, meant he struggled to secure good points in the race. Heck, one might say that he lost the title there, if one wants to discount the luck of mechanical failures.

[Wass85]

[Just_a_fan]

China is included in that which is incorrect. He started at the back because of penalties etc. and actually had a great start. He was then hit by one of the squabbling cars in front that jumped across on him avoiding someone else's accident. That one isn't a "rubbish start" from Hamilton.

The others do include some absolute shockers, though, especially Japan. Spain wasn't a bad start, per se, but Rosberg managed the tow and sweep around beautifully. It's a shame he messed it up for both of them by being in "warm up mode" race than "race start mode" and his subsequent hamfisted defence. I do still wonder if being in "warm up mode" gave him a better get away ironically.

[Phil]

I think Alonso is a heart driver. Definitely not a head driver. He got tricked on track, and tricked in the paddock a handful of times. You could even say he has tricked himself too!

Button is definitely Head.

Hamiton.... I think he was a heart driver but only until after he teamed with Button. He relaised heart a lone wont cut it. And He transformed himself a Head driver since. If we look back on it, he has played the paddock politics well. Mastered social media, driver sponsorships. He has psychologically defeated his opponents on track (Nico, Vettel, Bottas 2.0. And he has mastered these "thinking man" regulations with how he manages fuel and tyres.

Max.... Is all heart for the time being. Not sure he has done anything drastically ballsy as yet. But I think he has it in him.


A ballsy champion?? Hmm.. I would say Nico Rosberg. It took a lot of Balls to transform himself and do what he did. Sadly his buldging balls shrunk a like raisin in the sun after he won the championship.

Wow, I was about to reply something else until I read this and just couldn't agree more. Very well said and spot on, Platinum.

[PlatinumZealot]

I think Alonso is a heart driver. Definitely not a head driver. He got tricked on track, and tricked in the paddock a handful of times. You could even say he has tricked himself too!

Button is definitely Head.

Hamiton.... I think he was a heart driver but only until after he teamed with Button. He relaised heart a lone wont cut it. And He transformed himself a Head driver since. If we look back on it, he has played the paddock politics well. Mastered social media, driver sponsorships. He has psychologically defeated his opponents on track (Nico, Vettel, Bottas 2.0. And he has mastered these "thinking man" regulations with how he manages fuel and tyres.

Max.... Is all heart for the time being. Not sure he has done anything drastically ballsy as yet. But I think he has it in him.


A ballsy champion?? Hmm.. I would say Nico Rosberg. It took a lot of Balls to transform himself and do what he did. Sadly his buldging balls shrunk a like raisin in the sun after he won the championship.

Outside of Blanchimont?

Cars are on rails these days. Thankfully competitors are humane and they lift. The MSC v Alonso one there was a lift. iiRc.