COVID-19 could affect more races this year.

[Just_a_fan]

Yes they are. It would be nice hear some counter arguments but hey ho.

oh really last time you didn't address the counter arguments but let's make a fresh start then: Ross Brawn:

We could have a very closed environment where teams come in on charter [planes], we channel them into the circuit, we make sure everyone's tested, cleared, there's no risk to everyone and we have a race without spectators.

"That's not great, but I think it's still better than no racing at all."

Brawn added F1 races would help "keep the sport alive" while also giving millions of fans at home a "huge boost", but was also adamant nobody would be put at risk by starting the championship.

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433 ... on-vodcast

now if you have some evidence people would be victimised by this then let's have it. Evidence, not conjecture. i have a memory you were in favour of doing races at Silverstone at one point, but perhaps that was with someone saying they shouldn't instead of they should?

The thought about racing several races at Silverstone was that at least most people could go home at times between races. I never favoured three straight weeks sat at Silverstone / a local hotel. Simple difference.

[izzy]

The thought about racing several races at Silverstone was that at least most people could go home at times between races. I never favoured three straight weeks sat at Silverstone / a local hotel. Simple difference.

yes okay but i did point out that 3 weeks away is quite normal for F1 people. Even in 2012:

In Singapore, at the track, the advance crew then began setting up the temporary paddock and the team garages on Monday, Sept. 17, while another group arrived in Singapore on Wednesday, and then, after Singapore, the materials will be flown to Japan for the race there on Oct. 7 and then on to Yeongam for the Grand Prix there a week later.

https://www.liveabout.com/how-the-formu ... ld-1347446
or

Criss-crossing the world by plane - often in cramped economy seats - weeks away from home and family, incredibly long hours, lack of sleep and intense levels of stress amid a fear of failure are not the stuff of dreams.

https://sports.yahoo.com/unseen-side-f1 ... 55981.html

so i'm not saying it's great, but it's not a reason to suddenly cancel F1 either

[strad]

Criss-crossing the world by plane - often in cramped economy seats - weeks away from home and family, incredibly long hours, lack of sleep and intense levels of stress amid a fear of failure are not the stuff of dreams.

But you don't see crew quitting do you? They and people in general like to complain but they could vote with their feet but they don't...they love it.

[izzy]

Criss-crossing the world by plane - often in cramped economy seats - weeks away from home and family, incredibly long hours, lack of sleep and intense levels of stress amid a fear of failure are not the stuff of dreams.

But you don't see crew quitting do you? They and people in general like to complain but they could vote with their feet but they don't...they love it.

yes they're insane for F1, exactly. i think some of them do burn out tbf, but while they're up for it surely not having a season would be the worst suffering of all

[hollus]

https://www.dailywire.com/news/early-an ... eport-says

30-50% tested have antibodies in Chicago.

Looking like it's been here a while, and now they are taking about all of those Vaping deaths from a few months ago might not have been just from vaping.

From that link:

At a hospital in Chicago, a non-randomized sample found that 30-50% of patients tested for COVID-19 have antibodies in their system, suggesting they already had the virus and have potential immunity.

Key point: "non-randomized". They tested, in a drive through hospital setting, people that went there. I don't know if spontaneously or bacause the hospital suggested them to, but the headline should rather read: 30-50% of people currently or recently feeling sick with Covid-like symptoms tested positive for Covid antibodies.
Hardly surprising, if you ask me?

By the way, the PCR tests will not detect the virus in people in the latest stages of recovery, nor after that point.

Regarding the antibody tests, they are mostly "beta" versions, they come in all sorts of size and colors (and formats and antigens and testing times) and I have read anything from 50% false positives to 50% false negatives. Those things have to mature and be cross-tested across different environments before their results can be considered accurate enough to inform policy. Hell, even the PCR tests have 20% miss rates.

[Zynerji]

https://www.dailywire.com/news/early-an ... eport-says

30-50% tested have antibodies in Chicago.

Looking like it's been here a while, and now they are taking about all of those Vaping deaths from a few months ago might not have been just from vaping.

From that link:

At a hospital in Chicago, a non-randomized sample found that 30-50% of patients tested for COVID-19 have antibodies in their system, suggesting they already had the virus and have potential immunity.

Key point: "non-randomized". They tested, in a drive through hospital setting, people that went there. I don't know if spontaneously or bacause the hospital suggested them to, but the headline should rather read: 30-50% of people currently or recently feeling sick with Covid-like symptoms tested positive for Covid antibodies.
Hardly surprising, if you ask me?

By the way, the PCR tests will not detect the virus in people in the latest stages of recovery, nor after that point.

Regarding the antibody tests, they are mostly "beta" versions, they come in all sorts of size and colors (and formats and antigens and testing times) and I have read anything from 50% false positives to 50% false negatives. Those things have to mature and be cross-tested across different environments before their results can be considered accurate enough to inform policy. Hell, even the PCR tests have 20% miss rates.

But yet, we are currently operating a policy in the US derived from knee-jerk data from the WHO, CDC, and IHME that has inarguably been proven woefully incorrect, multiple times...

If people are showing antibodies when they are being tested, they must have had the virus in the past. The article is clear on that as well. So no matter the cross-section of non-random tests, the fact that these same patients are not expecting to have them (they believe that they never had the virus) means that they have either passed it off as a seperate illness (viral pneumonia), or they simply did not have a severe enough reaction to seek a doctor (probably treated with DayQuil/NyQuil).

That is extremely positive news!

[Just_a_fan]

the fact that these same patients are not expecting to have them (they believe that they never had the virus) means that they have either passed it off as a seperate illness (viral pneumonia), or they simply did not have a severe enough reaction to seek a doctor (probably treated with DayQuil/NyQuil).

That is extremely positive news!

There is anecdotal evidence that people can be asymptomatic. That's great for them - they don't feel ill - but they're the equivalent of a walking minefield. Anyone gets too close and they can get a dose. Some of those will also be asymptomatic and some will get a life threatening infection. The asymptomatic ones will carry on as normal. Rinse and repeat.

This issue is why there is so much effort made to limit contact between people - social distancing and / or lock downs.

Some might think that the economy is all that matters. Others think that looking after people is a good thing to do. Generally, the two positions don't coincide because helping people in this context is harmful to the economy.

[Zynerji]

the fact that these same patients are not expecting to have them (they believe that they never had the virus) means that they have either passed it off as a seperate illness (viral pneumonia), or they simply did not have a severe enough reaction to seek a doctor (probably treated with DayQuil/NyQuil).

That is extremely positive news!

There is anecdotal evidence that people can be asymptomatic. That's great for them - they don't feel ill - but they're the equivalent of a walking minefield. Anyone gets too close and they can get a dose. Some of those will also be asymptomatic and some will get a life threatening infection. The asymptomatic ones will carry on as normal. Rinse and repeat.

This issue is why there is so much effort made to limit contact between people - social distancing and / or lock downs.

Some might think that the economy is all that matters. Others think that looking after people is a good thing to do. Generally, the two positions don't coincide because helping people in this context is harmful to the economy.

How many anecdotes does it take to make a true story? I hear this excuse a lot, so there must be an echo chamber or just an overwhelming number of anecdotes.

How much positive news does it take to move past this virus?

How many people must continue to suffer from the "cure"? And for how long?

At some point, this is going to just be accepted as a risk of being alive, like any other virus or allergy. At the current rate, the virus will be gone long before a vaccine.

[NL_Fer]

The U.K. office of national statistics (ONS) have published a paper on the registered deaths from all sources and the effect of Covid19 for the week ending 27 March. It reports about 5% excess deaths and a large discrepancy between the headline government daily figures, which are hospital only, and the overall level of Covid19 related deaths.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulatio ... 7march2020

The ONS data has quite a lag, because of the time taken to report and aggregate the data. The reported Covid19 deaths around that week were less than 100 per day, whereas now we’re approaching 1000 and so when ONS publishes a similar report for this week we might expect a very significant number of excess deaths.

5100 for week 14, 30th March - 5th April. That is an excess of 2000 deaths. Official covid19 deaths is 995 for the same period.

[humble sabot]

How many anecdotes does it take to make a true story? I hear this excuse a lot, so there must be an echo chamber or just an overwhelming number of anecdotes.

How much positive news does it take to move past this virus?

How many people must continue to suffer from the "cure"? And for how long?

At some point, this is going to just be accepted as a risk of being alive, like any other virus or allergy. At the current rate, the virus will be gone long before a vaccine.

It's not an "excuse".

Who's suffering from the cure? There's no cure yet. There's barely a treatment yet.

The virus has no chance of being "gone" before a vaccine. It's a strong enough virus to have infected a 1.5 million people and every country on earth in the space of six months. Officially 110000 people dead from it, so far. There are right now, nearly 480000 active cases in the US. Alone.

[humble sabot]

as I've stated, in my opinion selfish.

Yes it's your opinion and you are entitled to it. But people are entitled to disagree with it as well.

I happen to agree with JAF's opinion on this one

[Just_a_fan]

How many anecdotes does it take to make a true story? I hear this excuse a lot, so there must be an echo chamber or just an overwhelming number of anecdotes.

How much positive news does it take to move past this virus?

How many people must continue to suffer from the "cure"? And for how long?

At some point, this is going to just be accepted as a risk of being alive, like any other virus or allergy. At the current rate, the virus will be gone long before a vaccine.

It's not an "excuse".

Who's suffering from the cure? There's no cure yet. There's barely a treatment yet.

It's a line from the US President back when he was speaking to his followers. The "cure" in this case is the social distancing that results in companies closing down for a while. I.e. the economic cost isn't worth paying to save people's lives, basically.

[hollus]

If people are showing antibodies when they are being tested, they must have had the virus in the past.

This is asking a lot of real world biochemistry. If a test result is positive, it means that a reaction in a test tube, artificially forced to give a binary result, gave a positive result. Something reacted with something. In most cases is will be the antibody reacting with the correct antigen, but false positives are almost a law of nature when working with antibodies, from physichochemical artifacts to degrading reagents to cross reactions with other coronavirues.

Still, yes, most of those positives will be real and yes, for every PCR positive there seems to be a good few people that had an asymptomatic or mild disease and that now are, most likely, inmune. Let's hope they are many, many more than we think, because then and only then we are on our way to herd immunity.
I don't want to even imagine reaching next winter with less than 5% of the population immunized.
I guess this shows that I live in the northern hemisphere, because that is exactly what is coming to the southern hemisphere. /Holds breath/

[Fulcrum]

I'll be asking for a public apology when this is all over, I believe.

Im patient!

Keep dreaming.

[Fulcrum]

It is yourself who is missing the point ! There is no standing for opting to use the UK because most teams are based there. A country that has good control of the virus is a far safer place for the teams than the UK which is not doing the best of jobs minimising the spread. Any chance of getting all teams to participate in racing, would be to hold a race in a neutral country. The Brits wont want to go to Italy, and the Italian , Austrian teams wont want to come to UK.

Anyway, you are getting up tight about something that wont in all possibilty, happen.

And as for your latest comment....sorry, but that is ridiculous. Figures show 50 /50.

That's strange, because a very rudimentary search produces multiple sources that contradict your opinion.

Here are a few to peruse.

https://www.statista.com/chart/21345/co ... by-gender/
https://www.statista.com/statistics/110 ... r-germany/
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... ographics/
https://www.vox.com/2020/4/9/21215063/c ... -dying-why
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandso ... n-on-women
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/03/us/c ... -bias.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/07/heal ... k-men.html
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... us-but-why
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/p ... -women-but