FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

[izzy]

izzy. i am very bemused by your unusual assumptions. many things can happen and making such assumptions does not make them fact. As mentioned before, there are numerous reasons for changes in performance. So how do you actually know that the reduction in performance was due to a second sensor?
If you understand the properties of synthetic fuel and also read illiens comments, you will see that engine maps have to be altered significantly to cater for these fuels. So how can you be sure that a change of fuel did not require a reduction of power in the interests of reliability
fuel is checked by stewards before and after every race, and as it was found to be in accordance with regulations, it wasnt illegal, even if it had additives. and yes, if ferrari had been found to be cheating, then the FIA would have disqualified them, as they would do with any team deliberately cheating and as they have done in the past.
and i certainly would accept FIA comments as being close to the truth. there was nothing illegal found in the ferrari PU, but clearly the FIA felt that ferrari were stretching rules to the limit and felt that the best way to bring them to order was to ensure that the lessons they were learning were made available to manufacturers for possible use in road cars, and that is exactly what F1 is supposed to be about. Ferrari wont be happy that their secret fuel is now public, but they have to accept the rulings.
try to have an open mind and enjoy the innovations, no matter who makes them

of course Ferrari's fuel was legal, nobody's said anything else, and also of course Ferrari didn't run their cars with a worse fuel in precious pre-season track testing instead of getting everything sorted out on the dynos!

FIA added a second hack-proof sensor and Mattia admitted the engine was less strong. We know this. Meanwhile what do we know about the fuel composition they actually used? Nothing, just that Shell will be doing research

so how you have the face to accuse ME of making assumptions i do not know. "FIA would have disqualified them" lol. "there was nothing illegal found in the ferrari PU" lol. Your argument depends ridiculously on assuming FIA are scrupulously upstanding when the whole discussion is about them probably not being but being realistic

and that's on top of assumptions about fuel composition being magic last year then changing irrationally this year that you have zero evidence for

[strad]

Contribution :1)a gift or payment to a common fund or collection
….2)the part played by a person or thing in bringing about a result or helping something to advance.
.
a voluntary gift (as of money or service or ideas) made to some worthwhile cause...
See they made a contribution to the FIA .. a very worthwhile cause.

[saviour stivala]

The governing body wants the use of alternative fuels as soon as possible because they believe synthetic fuel is ‘the life-line’ for the sport. From next year (2021) F1 fuel will contain a minimum of 20% renewable source. And then that percentage will increase every year. Jean Todt wants the switch to 100% alternative fuel as soon as possible. ‘Each week I check with Gilles Simon, to see how far we’ve gone. The federation is also pushing for research projects that have to be co-financed by FERRARI. FERRARI fuel supplier SHELL is the first of the major manufacturers to have agreed to support this approach. Other mineral oil companies are still holding back. They would rather advertise their products as long as possible. The FIA main interest in switching to alternative fuels is being CO2 neutral. Just as important is the ‘independence the sport will gain with it.

[Polite]

izzy. i am very bemused by your unusual assumptions. many things can happen and making such assumptions does not make them fact. As mentioned before, there are numerous reasons for changes in performance. So how do you actually know that the reduction in performance was due to a second sensor?
If you understand the properties of synthetic fuel and also read illiens comments, you will see that engine maps have to be altered significantly to cater for these fuels. So how can you be sure that a change of fuel did not require a reduction of power in the interests of reliability
fuel is checked by stewards before and after every race, and as it was found to be in accordance with regulations, it wasnt illegal, even if it had additives. and yes, if ferrari had been found to be cheating, then the FIA would have disqualified them, as they would do with any team deliberately cheating and as they have done in the past.
and i certainly would accept FIA comments as being close to the truth. there was nothing illegal found in the ferrari PU, but clearly the FIA felt that ferrari were stretching rules to the limit and felt that the best way to bring them to order was to ensure that the lessons they were learning were made available to manufacturers for possible use in road cars, and that is exactly what F1 is supposed to be about. Ferrari wont be happy that their secret fuel is now public, but they have to accept the rulings.
try to have an open mind and enjoy the innovations, no matter who makes them

of course Ferrari's fuel was legal, nobody's said anything else, and also of course Ferrari didn't run their cars with a worse fuel in precious pre-season track testing instead of getting everything sorted out on the dynos!

FIA added a second hack-proof sensor and Mattia admitted the engine was less strong. We know this. Meanwhile what do we know about the fuel composition they actually used? Nothing, just that Shell will be doing research

so how you have the face to accuse ME of making assumptions i do not know. "FIA would have disqualified them" lol. "there was nothing illegal found in the ferrari PU" lol. Your argument depends ridiculously on assuming FIA are scrupulously upstanding when the whole discussion is about them probably not being but being realistic

and that's on top of assumptions about fuel composition being magic last year then changing irrationally this year that you have zero evidence for

Mattia never said the Pu is less strong.. bah

[saviour stivala]

After end of season but before start of 2020 winter testing the Italian F1 press was quoting FERRARI as saying that for 2020 season they have developed/prepared and will introduce a completely new engine and that the new engine shows a 20hp improvement on the 2019 engine.

[izzy]

Yeah, I can remember that quote. It's one of those sentences which give an impression of being some kind of mind games. Ferrari has not had any significant reliability issues on the PU front at all. Would be weird to lose power for even better reliability. Also, that would surely mean a step back. If any, you would expect them to improve reliability, but have same power. Isn't that the typical way?

Edit: I read your previous comment and know what you meant. You say Binotto accepted the PU has less power with explaining it by better reliability when in reality you think it's because Ferrari might have stopped with whatever they were doing.

yes, i think it's pretty obvious what's happened: it was very clever, naughty, they didn't win too much with it and Jean has done what he could which was actually stop it and given a pretty big deterrent! So after testing Mattia was stuck with the data and that was all he could say really.

And personally i'm expecting them to have caught up but legally by the time we start racing again. Then apart from not having crowds we could be in for a pretty intense season, with Honda caught up as well now and Charles and Max being a year older, it could actually be epic

[Polite]

Mattia never said the Pu is less strong.. bah

It's exactly what he said:

“I think in terms of overall performance on the power and the engine we are not as strong as we were last year,” Binotto explained.

“As I said as well we focused somehow on reliability and somehow compromising eventually the performance.

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/937006/1/ ... not-strong

about the new oil regulation of 0,6lper100km in race.. dont decontextualise

that interview in Italian sounded really different! Binotto also said that every manufacturer would have faced reliability problem because of the new regulation and every one will wait to run the pu in full mode for a while..

also: that inteview is old... spain tests week one. of course is a clickbait for crash.net infact in the article they dont say who was the journalist and when was made. but those are the word of Binotto in the first test..

[izzy]

about the new oil regulation of 0,6lper100km in race.. dont decontextualise

that interview in Italian sounded really different! Binotto also said that every manufacturer would have faced reliability problem because of the new regulation and every one will wait to run the pu in full mode for a while..

also: that inteview is old... spain tests week one. of course is a clickbait for crash.net infact in the article they dont say who was the journalist and when was made. but those are the word of Binotto in the first test..

Mattia was speaking English, no? remind me about this new oil limit in a race that he carelessly didn't mention, with a linky please. tho why it'd be different for the other oem's i don't know

[LM10]

After end of season but before start of 2020 winter testing the Italian F1 press was quoting FERRARI as saying that for 2020 season they have developed/prepared and will introduce a completely new engine and that the new engine shows a 20hp improvement on the 2019 engine.

What I read was that Ferrari was going to introduce a new PU in Melbourne which would have had 20 hp more than the one they used in pre-season.
Do you know which italian media claimed 20 hp gain on 2019 engine? Would be interested in reading that.

Two options then:
1) 20 hp on last year's PU without any losses
2) 20 hp on last year's PU after losses because of sensor saga (which I don't hope of course)

Option 2 would be a big step too because we can assume that Ferrari's PU without any tricks would at least be on par with others.

Wasn't 20 hp the gain for Mercedes' 2020 PU which was being reported as their biggest jump in hybrid era?

[izzy]

duplicate post now

[saviour stivala]

The FERRARI winter testing power unit used. Its potential was being limited by the reliability programme that was pre-planed and being implemented at that running.
Before the end of 2019:- ‘we have changed, by quite a lot, our power unit, in terms of ‘architecture’, the cylinder (technically reads combustion of which in turn reads a change in fuel specification), its quite a big review just to show here again, this is much that can be done. The change we are looking for next year is quite significant changes on the engine itself’. FERRARI having opted for a complete overhaul of its engine design for 2020 is because ‘We believe there is potential to exploit’.
A change in engine architecture normally takes place because the previous architecture is calculated as not being capable of supporting much more power output.

[dans79]

‘We believe there is potential to exploit’

That's a somewhat ironic quote!

[saviour stivala]

‘We believe there is potential to exploit’

That's a somewhat ironic quote!

What is 'ironic' in one believing there is potential to exploit?.

[PlatinumZealot]

People have to keep one standard. When Mercedes and Pirelli did secret testing in 2013.... I am sure it was illegal and not one drop of information came out on what they were testing and why they were not punished. IIRC.. I trust the FIA has made the best decision.

[Airshifter]

At the end of the day, we will probably never really know what did or didn't happen.

IMO if the other teams were so sure that the advantage could not be had without breaching the rules, they should have lodged an official protest. But they didn't. It could have been because they were already exploiting a similar grey area in the regs, or at least researching it. Or it could have been because they just weren't sure.



Thankfully with all the lockdowns people can't form into two groups in person, with one screaming "They CHEATED!" while the other chants "They DIDN'T CHEAT!"