Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

[henry]

The thread seems To have drifted from when will BEVs be viable to when will they be mainstream.

In that respect I think an issue will be battery life. The average age of cars in the U.K. is around 8 years. The average age at scrappage is around 14. I’ve seen it suggested that batteries last around 7 years with viable capacity. As many as half the cars on the road are of an age where range issue will be magnified by battery age.

Maybe the business model will change and cars will be retired earlier and their battery backs recycled into home storage. I have seen a Domestic power store made out of used Leaf batteries. I don’t know how that will effect the millions of Jack and Jill Averages for whom a car is basic transport and old cars are preferred because they are affordable.

[Just_a_fan]

I don't see a reason why the batteries shouldn't be changeable. Indeed, I think it should be a legal requirement that the batteries can be changed. Scrapping an entire car just because of one component failure is criminal, really, from a resource / environmental view point.

The old batteries will be recycled so no reason why it could be done in the same way as some ICE engines are swapped. You send your old one, get a recon/new one in exchange and pay a fee which is less than just buying a new unit would be without the exchange.

[Big Tea]

I don't see a reason why the batteries shouldn't be changeable. Indeed, I think it should be a legal requirement that the batteries can be changed. Scrapping an entire car just because of one component failure is criminal, really, from a resource / environmental view point.

The old batteries will be recycled so no reason why it could be done in the same way as some ICE engines are swapped. You send your old one, get a recon/new one in exchange and pay a fee which is less than just buying a new unit would be without the exchange.

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/04/26/a- ... of-range/


Sorry, changed the link form original as I thought I remembered an option to replace it with a more modern and updated pack, but cannot recall where

[3jawchuck]

I wonder what would be the practicality of transporting EV's by train in the case of long distance needs?
...

Numerous times when we have gone up north for a break we have taken the car train. Drive the car on the train, find your seat, go to the meal carriage if needed. It's a fairly pleasant way to travel without the tedium of driving all the way.

I imagine that option will become more common everywhere once EVs start to gain more headway.

[Big Tea]

I wonder what would be the practicality of transporting EV's by train in the case of long distance needs?
...

Numerous times when we have gone up north for a break we have taken the car train. Drive the car on the train, find your seat, go to the meal carriage if needed. It's a fairly pleasant way to travel without the tedium of driving all the way.

I imagine that option will become more common everywhere once EVs start to gain more headway.

or there is this (maybe?)


30 min for a 200 mile trip

[strad]

I don't see a reason why the batteries shouldn't be changeable.

That might be cool but I can't imagine how much it would cost to pull into a service station and change your battery.
Time and cost would squelch that one. imo

[Ferry]

I've always been a fan of Porsche. I could live with the Taycan...

[Ferry]

I’ve seen it suggested that batteries last around 7 years with viable capacity.

I think that is very pessimistic. My oldest i3 (I've got two) is 5,5 years old now. I haven't noticed any degradation at all @ 90.000 km. I guess it's there, as it can't be zero %. But I haven't noticed any practical difference. So even if it has degraded, it can't be that much. In theory the battery should outlast the car. This article claims 800.000+ km for the 94 Ah BMW i3. https://insideevs.com/news/338067/bmw-i ... 000-miles/ I don't believe that until I see it, but even half of that would be fantastic. More than average for the scrapping milage, which is maybe 250.000 km or so. Average milage in Norway is ca. 15.000 km/year. Battery management is key.

[Just_a_fan]

I don't see a reason why the batteries shouldn't be changeable.

That might be cool but I can't imagine how much it would cost to pull into a service station and change your battery.
Time and cost would squelch that one. imo

I was thinking about after 5-7 years when the battery is getting tired.

[strad]

AHhhh My Mistake... Earlier we had a discussion about battery swaps in lieu of charging stops and I thought that was what you were talking about.

[J.A.W.]

How many passenger cars do you see towing anything these days?

I went out to get groceries and some gas so I did an informal survey. Two thirds of the small SUVs and passenger cars I saw had trailer hitches. Audis, VWs, Subaru Impreza's and Outbacks even Mercedes you name it.

What % of them so equipped, were actually towing a trailer, though?

What are the local reg's for trailer attachments (lights/brakes/weight-loadings)?

Some jurisdictions are more complex compliance-wise, than others, it seems.

[FW17]

Does battery degradation mean reduction in range or inability to use full power of motor?

Or is it both?

Silly question maybe, but just relating to iPhone battery management which wouldn't allow full power of the processor when battery gets old.

[Tommy Cookers]

in a way the range reduction is built-in from day 1
(to make the battery warranty hold up the car is arranged normally to use only about 35% of its full capacity ie range)

presumably if there is now improved battery life this would appear (already ?) as some of .....
increased warranty life
increased range
range/life unincreased but battery cost/weight reduced

[joshuagore]

in a way the range reduction is built-in from day 1
(to make the battery warranty hold up the car is arranged normally to use only about 35% of its full capacity ie range)

presumably if there is now improved battery life this would appear (already ?) as some of .....
increased warranty life
increased range
range/life unincreased but battery cost/weight reduced

75%-85% is closer to what I've found. Anything I have tested is charged to 85% as new and increased to 100% over the life of the battery (your chemistry may vary) . Maybe less would be more fruitful but it would also limit the range when new to the point of effecting the products utility. In a car this may be easier to accomplish but on a bike it really does ad significant weight if i'm assuming packaging 50% more battery, especially considering the battery is swap-able. I have never heard of a battery being used at 35% state of charge, but I do know most oem's have very specific charging cycles which maximize both range and reliability against charging cycles.

[Just_a_fan]

AHhhh My Mistake... Earlier we had a discussion about battery swaps in lieu of charging stops and I thought that was what you were talking about.

In fairness, I did make that suggestion earlier so I can see how it caused confusion.