What vintage races do you recommend?

[Jolle]

Yesterday I watched next gp to Zanvoort 82 wich I watched past week and really enjoied, British GP at BrandHatch. Not bad, but far from the previous.

But there was something wich made me think. Walker and Hunt talked about a strategy Nelson Piquet tried, soft tires and low fuel to stop mid-race to change tires and top up the fuel tank. They said if it would work it would be a game changer in motorsport, so I assume none had refueled before, is that right?

He was building a great gap with 20seconds before lap 20, but then the 1.5 turbo BMW into his Brabham decided that was not the day

Was that really first attempt ever for refuelling?

I believe they did it in the early days (when you even could swap drivers) but in the modern days, yes.

With some googleling there are funny and almost disturbing facts shares by Gordon Murray himself how the rig worked.

[f1316]

Some discussion of Schumi’s Spain 96 drive (and btw you can have the same debate about setup for Donnington ‘93 - or pretty much any other great wet weather performance) but some other classic Schumi wet weather performances that sometimes get forgotten:
- Monaco 97
- Spa 97
- USA 2003 (Bridgestone ended up in his favour - but not before they were a liability in the mixed conditions)
- China 2006

The final one - and Schumacher’s final ever victory - is in some ways my favourite. To get the full effect you should really watch the qualifying too. The Bridgestone were NOWHERE and none of the other runners on those tyres were even remotely close. MSC somehow qualified 6th and while - to avoid spoilers - I’ll just say others shot themselves in the foot, Michael had no business being anywhere near close enough to capitalise.

[Andres125sx]

Andres, I am curious to pick up your thoughts after you have seen Kyalami 1983. I just watched it after recefans ran an article on the race before that one, ending in a cliffhanger leaving a title decider at Kyalami. I have only found it in German (ORF) though. Spoiler: according to the thread's title, this would be an off-topic post.

Didn´t watch it yet, yesterday I did a search for it but found this first, and since I´ve been searching old races and this looked like decent quality (considering it´s 1977) I finally watched.

Ignore the title and video lenght, it´s just 40 minutes of raw video, no comments, then the start again with a 20 minutes summary with italian comments, quite odd

The race is dull, and amateur broadcast, but I did enjoy watching those cars, specially the 6 wheels Tyrrell, wow that had some oversteer! Love Scheckter´s Wolf Ford too

There´s also a tragic accident, with Tom Price running over a steward, neither of them survived. No images of the accident luckily

[Just_a_fan]

There´s also a tragic accident, with Tom Price running over a steward, neither of them survived. No images of the accident luckily

A terrible accident that shouldn't have happened. Young lad (19 years old, I think) was helping with the marshalling, a car pulled over with a fire, the young lad plus another marshal crossed the track with fire extinguishers. They were just over the brow of a hill so oncoming cars a bit unsighted. Tom Price's car hit the young man, killing him instantly because, well, he was torn apart by the impact. The fire extinguisher hit Price in the head killing him instantly. They only realised the marshal had died when they looked for him at the end and realised he wasn't there. Apparently the fire extinguisher ended up in a public car park such was the force of the impact that sent it flying. There is video of the crash on youtube. It is not nice.

Accidents such as this are why motor racing is so much safer today - they learned the lessons and made things safer and saved many other lives, which is a nice epitaph for those who died I think.

[coaster]

Hmmm, might skip that imagery, but certainly an important lesson i will concur.

[Andres125sx]

Andres, I am curious to pick up your thoughts after you have seen Kyalami 1983. I just watched it after recefans ran an article on the race before that one, ending in a cliffhanger leaving a title decider at Kyalami. I have only found it in German (ORF) though. Spoiler: according to the thread's title, this would be an off-topic post.

Just watched it, not a specially fun race, but I LOVE that Brabham .

That´s not the rear wing they used in Kyalami (different livery too with front part of the cockpit blue instead of white), but I like it better than this thing...


About the race it was average, with normal uncertainities in the era with several retirements but not too much overtakes. The video I watched missed some tough, at first part of the race Piquet and Patresse lead with De Cesaris and Prost fighting for 3rd, but they did a pause I guees for some news and when they returned to the track Lauda was 3rd

Fastest pit-stop ever for Brabham with 9,2 seconds for a 4 wheel switch with refuelling. I guess 1983 was first season with regular refuelling after some attempts in 1982

[hollus]

Thanks for getting back on it!

For me it was a reminder of the myths that do not apply in reality in the “golden era”.
A three way championship decider losing a contendant in few laps to the engine. A known outcome in the start with the Brabhams predictably jumping everyone. Effortless overtaking made by cranking the turbo up in the long straigts. A few cars infinitely superior to the rest. Lauda’s cutting through the field, almost unchallenged. The race leader driving to a delta, his team mate’s strategy sacrificed for his sake, the real chaser calculating between chasing and maybe DNFing or waiting and hoping for trouble ahead. All that incredibly reminiscent of the last years, just change turbo pressure for tire life.
And then the anticlimatic decision, with mechanic gremlins stopping the chaser half race.

Ah, yes! The coverage also felt as overloaded with ads as nowadays.

But I guess I am grumpy.

[hollus]

This is very fitting now that we talk about the Brabham from 1983.

[Just_a_fan]

Thanks for getting back on it!

For me it was a reminder of the myths that do not apply in reality in the “golden era”.

I wonder if some of the "golden era" idea comes from people watching highlight reels rather than sitting through hours of dull races with a few moments of excitement/brilliance.

[3jawchuck]

Thanks for getting back on it!
For me it was a reminder of the myths that do not apply in reality in the “golden era”.

I wonder if some of the "golden era" idea comes from people watching highlight reels rather than sitting through hours of dull races with a few moments of excitement/brilliance.

I remember plenty of live races where we watched the leader lapping uninhibited and missed all the action further back. We'd sometimes catch it in replays but the producers back then rarely had any clue how to read and cover a race.

I do also remember many races where very little at all happened usually in conjunction with massive gaps caused by large quality differences in drivers and teams at the time.

Of course I also remember some classics that kept me on the edge of my seat, and often off of it, shouting at the screen. Those were not rare but not in the majority either.

So, not too unlike today. I just lack the youthful and childlike passion I used to have.

[Andres125sx]

Thanks for getting back on it!

For me it was a reminder of the myths that do not apply in reality in the “golden era”.
A three way championship decider losing a contendant in few laps to the engine. A known outcome in the start with the Brabhams predictably jumping everyone. Effortless overtaking made by cranking the turbo up in the long straigts. A few cars infinitely superior to the rest. Lauda’s cutting through the field, almost unchallenged. The race leader driving to a delta, his team mate’s strategy sacrificed for his sake, the real chaser calculating between chasing and maybe DNFing or waiting and hoping for trouble ahead. All that incredibly reminiscent of the last years, just change turbo pressure for tire life.
And then the anticlimatic decision, with mechanic gremlins stopping the chaser half race.

Ah, yes! The coverage also felt as overloaded with ads as nowadays.

But I guess I am grumpy.

Agree, F1 has always been about the big boys fighting the titles, and the rest at a considerable distance. Actually that distance today is probably the smallest ever, in most races I´ve watch of the 70s and 80s the leader lapped the 4th, 5th or 6th as much, in some even 3rd car is lapped

[Andres125sx]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqFn_VUASKQ

This is very fitting now that we talk about the Brabham from 1983.

Thanks, after watching this one YT showed another video about the fan car (Brabham BT46B), so I had to watch it obviously, and then searching some more I found this BBC film wich is great and not too OT


Didn´t know the fan car was born as a result of the first ground effect car (Lotus 78 and 79) wich forced their rivals to push the limits to reduce the huge advantage they found. I personally would have never retired the car only after their first race and victory, at least collect some more after all the hard work and brilliant idea

Edit: talking about the Lotus 79 without posting a picture is a crime, so here it is
Lotus 78 (1977), first ground effect car wich didn´t win the titile because of several engine failures


Lotus 79 (1978) wich solved previous problems