Why Verstappen will NOT win in 2020

[raymondu999]

Verstappen gets into everyone's head and most that try to take him on wheel to wheel (most of the time) come out 2nd best, even Lewis! That says a lot.

I don’t think this paints an accurate picture. Yes on a purely facts basis this is true. But that does not take into account that part of Lewis is playing a percentage game with finishes. There is no glory to be had for Lewis to go wheelbanging with Verstappen other than on-track plaudits. Verstappen can send a divebomb up the inside and it’s win or DNF for him, but for Lewis it’s potentially championship or not.

Remember this was also something said of Lewis in 2007-2008, the swashbuckling bull tamer type. So there is a bit of that DNA in Lewis too.

This is not to say Verstappen won’t beat Lewis in a head to head once circumstances are more equal - I’m just saying their different circumstances are not taken into account

[raymondu999]

Nah Newey is worth every penny. Far from overrated. His cars have had the most consistent downforce in the last two years and almost zero balance issues. If Honda gets closer to Mercedes Max is going to be a serious threat every race to the Merc boys.

This is a different argument entirely tbh. Newey is fantastic, he’s an aero god if there ever was one. But he’s overrated in the sense that people rate him, “omg Newey car = championship car”

There are other factors that have needed to be in line these last few years.

But I do think that his cars have a “supercharging” effect on drivers - the car is generally balanced and don’t need too much manhandling, and hence that allows drivers more capacity to focus on race maximization and almost “transcend” the car. Among drivers who we have seen driving his great cars And non-Newey cars, we can see that the percentage of races where they are punching above their weight is greater in Newey cars. Raikkonen, Vettel, Ricciardo(?) we have seen drive a higher percentage of these - not necessarily wins - greater-than-the-car-pace-dictates type races in his cars

[ENGINE TUNER]

Verstappen gets into everyone's head and most that try to take him on wheel to wheel (most of the time) come out 2nd best, even Lewis! That says a lot.

I don’t think this paints an accurate picture. Yes on a purely facts basis this is true. But that does not take into account that part of Lewis is playing a percentage game with finishes. There is no glory to be had for Lewis to go wheelbanging with Verstappen other than on-track plaudits. Verstappen can send a divebomb up the inside and it’s win or DNF for him, but for Lewis it’s potentially championship or not.

Remember this was also something said of Lewis in 2007-2008, the swashbuckling bull tamer type. So there is a bit of that DNA in Lewis too.

This is not to say Verstappen won’t beat Lewis in a head to head once circumstances are more equal - I’m just saying their different circumstances are not taken into account

Whoever said that about Hamilton is wrong, he started his F1 career with 9 straight podiums, that means 9 straight finishes without collisions, I don't think Verstappen has accomplished that(9 straight races without causing a collision)yet in his entire F1 career. Also, Hamilton's streak did not end because of his fault either.

[raymondu999]

Whoever said that about Hamilton is wrong, he started his F1 career with 9 straight podiums, that means 9 straight finishes without collisions

You obviously misread or misunderstood my post.

[NathanOlder]

Nah Newey is worth every penny. Far from overrated. His cars have had the most consistent downforce in the last two years and almost zero balance issues. If Honda gets closer to Mercedes Max is going to be a serious threat every race to the Merc boys.

This is a different argument entirely tbh. Newey is fantastic, he’s an aero god if there ever was one. But he’s overrated in the sense that people rate him, “omg Newey car = championship car”

There are other factors that have needed to be in line these last few years.

But I do think that his cars have a “supercharging” effect on drivers - the car is generally balanced and don’t need too much manhandling, and hence that allows drivers more capacity to focus on race maximization and almost “transcend” the car. Among drivers who we have seen driving his great cars And non-Newey cars, we can see that the percentage of races where they are punching above their weight is greater in Newey cars. Raikkonen, Vettel, Ricciardo(?) we have seen drive a higher percentage of these - not necessarily wins - greater-than-the-car-pace-dictates type races in his cars

This is pretty much my point. Thank you

[NathanOlder]

Nah Newey is worth every penny. Far from overrated. His cars have had the most consistent downforce in the last two years and almost zero balance issues. If Honda gets closer to Mercedes Max is going to be a serious threat every race to the Merc boys.

This is a different argument entirely tbh. Newey is fantastic, he’s an aero god if there ever was one. But he’s overrated in the sense that people rate him, “omg Newey car = championship car”

There are other factors that have needed to be in line these last few years.

But I do think that his cars have a “supercharging” effect on drivers - the car is generally balanced and don’t need too much manhandling, and hence that allows drivers more capacity to focus on race maximization and almost “transcend” the car. Among drivers who we have seen driving his great cars And non-Newey cars, we can see that the percentage of races where they are punching above their weight is greater in Newey cars. Raikkonen, Vettel, Ricciardo(?) we have seen drive a higher percentage of these - not necessarily wins - greater-than-the-car-pace-dictates type races in his cars

This is pretty much my point. Thank you

[ENGINE TUNER]

Whoever said that about Hamilton is wrong, he started his F1 career with 9 straight podiums, that means 9 straight finishes without collisions

You obviously misread or misunderstood my post.

You said that Hamilton was similar to Verstappen with the swashbuckler type dna, that is not true at all, and my evidence was the 9 straight podiums that Hamilton started his F1 career off with.

Hamilton made few mistakes from the very beginning, Verstappen has bee. A crasher since jump, and hasn't changed or fixed anything.

[Wouter]

Hamilton made few mistakes from the very beginning,
Verstappen has bee. A crasher since jump,
and hasn't changed or fixed anything.

Oh, is that so? Maybe you should buy a new television with a sharper screen!
Just sad that you always talk so derogatory about Max Verstappen. Over and over again!

[Just_a_fan]

Wow, this thread descended in to a slanging match fairly quickly...

[3jawchuck]

Wow, this thread descended in to a slanging match fairly quickly...

With a title like it has, I'm frankly surprised it took so long.

[Andres125sx]

Yeah so the designer on his own can't win in the Hybrid era, so Newey is in a way overrated, as he is beaten more often than not.

I personally don´t like this sort of comments, sorry Nathan but imagine someone using DaVinci failed inventions to state he was not a genius and he´s overrated it´s similar, no genius produce a 100% of brilliant ideas

Also genius like Newey don´t compete with retards, there are similar genius at any other top team, so since humans are not robots and don´t perform at their very best level constantly, some season the best will be the best, and some season the best will not be the best, as simple as that, but that does not mean he´s not a genius, only that he´s a human

Add to that F1 is a team competition so the overal perfomance will depend on the work of a lot of people apart from him, and even the very best genius ever (not saying Newey is) may strugle to win a single title if all the rest of his team is not at the very best level too. The whole F1 grid is composed by the very best in their fields, difference between the more brilliant genius in the grid and the third or fourth is not that high, so the rest of the team will always play a crucial role to win or not. That´s the greatness of any team competition. Look at football/soccer with Messi not winning a single America´s cup or World Cup despite several attempts at each. Does that mean he´s not a genius? I don´t think so, and I´m a Real Madrid fan

So do you consider Vettel to be the best? as his success came at the same time as Neweys. Since then we all know Seb is nothing like what he previously was. So why can't Newey be in the same boat?

Sorry but I don´t understand this reasoning. Vettel enjoyed best car from Newey, I don´t see how that may imply he´s the best. Obviously he´s very good but that´s all. Alonso almost beat him with a half a second slower car

I stick to my original opinion in that Newey is now, overrated. I'd agree he is possibly the best of all time in his field. But it doesn't mean he can now be overrated.

I can agree with this, being the best does not imply he can´t be overrated

Also if you don't want to end up on many ignore lists, please don't use the word r##tard. It's extremely offensive.

That was the intention as insinuating the best should win more often than not imply discreditting all his competition, as if they´re all stupid who don´t have a chance fighting him, when that´s not true, specially on a team competition

[ENGINE TUNER]

Hamilton made few mistakes from the very beginning,
Verstappen has bee. A crasher since jump,
and hasn't changed or fixed anything.

Oh, is that so? Maybe you should buy a new television with a sharper screen!
Just sad that you always talk so derogatory about Max Verstappen. Over and over again!

The list has been provided several times

Crashed into SAI in Bahrain
Crashed into BOT in Monaco
Crashed into HAM in Monaco
Crashed into LEC in Austria
Touched LEC at Silverstone
Crashed into Kimi in Spa, TWICE!
Crashed into someone at Monza T1
Crashed into HAM in Mexico
Crashed into BOT in Mexico
Crashed into MAG in Mexico

[LM10]

Can you show me a proof of your 40+ hp claim or is it just your wish?

Silly whataboutism .. it's only just the number that was used by the whole world in literally every article, post or discussion concerning the fuel flow engine directive back in November (actually, most used guestimate was around 50bhp, so I've even been mild).

Look, Lec is an absolute talent, no doubt about that. But using the phrase 'dirty tactics' against one guy whilst appraising the other guy with an illegal PU, feels somewhat .. shortsighted.
That's all fine with me, just whataboutism-ing your way out of an argument isn't very sexy.

I don't care about the discussion Leclerc vs. Verstappen. I've not commented on that as you may have noticed. My intention was not to defend Leclerc's performance against Verstappen by talking about potentially lost horsepower figures.

I only asked where that number of 40+ or 50+ comes from. "Whole world" talking about it does not make it more true. If one claims something and put it in an article, all others copy it. That's how media works.

[Wynters]

Wow, this thread descended in to a slanging match fairly quickly...

A thread filled with people who are convinced that their favourite driver is the best, regardless of evidence? I'm shocked that there would be disagreement when several of these groups congregate.

Shocked.

[PlatinumZealot]

The well reasoned posters would know this is not a driver versus driver thread. The intention is to really argue reasons outside of Max Verstappen's enormous talent the odds will be heavily stacked against him.