NASCAR

[Scorpaguy]

...yes, this one was quite transparent...and NASCAR et al have lost some credibility. As for my friends across the pond, may I interject a bit here please...and Mod, please note this is motorsport related.

The confederate flag banned from NASCAR is not the confederate flag...but actually a confederate battle banner/naval jack (there is some nuance to this statement, but such can be correctly stated). The "stars and bars" as it came to be called, evolved into a number of symbolisms. One such relation was that associated with the KKK...and hence its numerous calls for removal. The other has to do with the "rebel" connotation...not a "confederate" connotation. The "rebel" association has to do with the manufacture of illegal whiskey in the deep south (even today, some areas are "dry"). These "rebels" souped up their cars and operated a "Fast and Furious" style alcohol delivery ring...running from and out running the Federal "revenuers". They called themselves"rebels" and proudly displayed the "rebel" flag in defiance to Federal law enforcement. These whiskey runners and their cars became the first "stock car" racers and the first "stock cars".

So yes, the flag has racist overtones...but also yes, the flag can have no racial overtones.

[Jolle]

For that confederate flag, well, you might not find it offensive but the rest of the world will point at the back of your Suzuki truck with that bumper sticker and say “hey, a racist”. (And not since the last few weeks but at least as long as I can remember) Because for us, it’s about the states that wanted to keep slavery.

Same as here in Europe when we see a car with a Nazi swastika flag. We point and say “a racist” and then set fire to his car, because we really hate Nazi’s.

Racism isn’t left vs right, Republican vs Democrat, it’s good verses wrong.

[RZS10]

This pic is floating around on social media
There's also videos from 2017 which show those straps being tied like that

It's surprising that anyone would think this was a noose and not just a tied pull strap ... it would be understandable if it was out of place and hung elsewhere but when it's attached to the garage door it's weird that anyone would think "wow why would someone tie a noose in our garage?"

It is a distinct possibility that someone saw an opportunity for some publicity and most reports made it sound as if someone had carried an actual rope in there which was tied into a noose, that is probably because "a knot was tied into the garage pull strap" doesn't have the same ring to it

Funny thing is that some are now doubling down on the bs story

edit: to elaborate on the "doubling down" part ... the (un)affected driver (who never actually saw the loop on the pull strap) went on to say that it wouldn't matter when it was made and that he knows it wasn't directed at him but that it was "still a noose" (whatever that is supposed to mean) ... same as a some people on social media who went on about it being "a noose which just happened to not be directed at Bubba" - as if any loop in any rope/strap would automatically make it a "noose" and that a rope tied as a noose (which of course has other uses apart from hanging people) is in some way a problem or even a 'hate crime' directed at anybody when it's just a type of knot
edit2: cleaned up language

[Just_a_fan]

Funny thing is that some are now doubling down on the bs story

Funny thing is people pretending that racism isn't a thing and that it doesn't exist (or isn't the big problem some say it is).

Racism exists just like the other -isms (sexism etc.). It's caused by a "them and us" relationship. Leaders of all sorts work hard to develop a "them and us" narrative - that's how they get people to burn down religious buildings / wear suicide vests / go to war etc.

As US President LBJ once said: "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." That's a perfect example of that narrative being used. LBJ came from the South and in his younger years was what we would now called a racist. He understood the situation because he had been on both sides of the divide. This very idea is used today by the present incumbent of that esteemed office to get certain people to vote for him. Others have done the same over the years and will continue to do so so long as we, the people, are gullible enough to fall for the lies.

That's why the message from the FIA - we race as one - is important. It's an attempt to break down the "them and us" narrative. (attempt to get back on to motor sport )

[Tommy Cookers]

Funny thing is people pretending that racism isn't a thing and that it doesn't exist (or isn't the big problem some say it is).

the law is the determiner of what's a big problem
the democratic process deciding when a problem or big problem is to be treated as some sort of crime
there's no shortage of laws in this area

crimes that exist only in someone's imagination aren't crimes
democracy was invented to ensure this
to stop people being punished for what others imagined was in their minds

someone acting against others because he thought their thoughts illegimate - isn't that an abuse worthy of Stalin or Hitler etc ?

and yesterday we were all told that we all deplore the plane-towed banner reading 'white lives matter Burnley'
by everybody not just by Burnley Football Club

the day before this our TV seemed show us the unfortunate slaves weren't abducted into slavery by their fellow Africans
so was that 'Roots' stuff 40 years ago all wrong ?

before democracy (white) English were bought or sold in England by their owners (if the top 2 ranks of nobility)
and a big point of democracy became the abolition of 'seignurial rights'
..... we're all descended from slaves

[mclaren111]

I'm Never watching Nascar again....

[Just_a_fan]

Funny thing is people pretending that racism isn't a thing and that it doesn't exist (or isn't the big problem some say it is).

the law is the determiner of what's a big problem
the democratic process deciding when a problem or big problem is to be treated as some sort of crime
there's no shortage of laws in this area

The law states that discrimination on the basis of race (and sex, disability etc.) is a crime.

crimes that exist only in someone's imagination aren't crimes
democracy was invented to ensure this
to stop people being punished for what others imagined was in their minds

Er, no. Democracy was invented to allow certain people power over others so long as enough people of a certain view point could get together. Generally speaking, democracy only existed for those of a certain status, usually land owners or "free men".

[stalin stuff ignored as a red herring]

before democracy (white) English were bought or sold in England by their owners (if the top 2 ranks of nobility)
and a big point of democracy became the abolition of 'seignurial rights'
..... we're all descended from slaves

Nice attempt at derailment. Sure, go back far enough and just about anyone can claim "I'm from slave stock" just as many can claim they have royal blood if you back far enough. It's a straw man argument intended to deflect from a very real current issue.

The issue is whether one is currently discriminated against solely on the basis of the amount of melanin in your skin (or your religion, or your sex). Some people seem to think that doing so is OK. If you think that, fine, come out and say it. Don't hide behind veiled attempts to set up straw man counter arguments. "Man up", as is said in the current vernacular.

[Just_a_fan]

I'm Never watching Nascar again....

That's the beauty of freedom. You can make a choice.

[strad]

To put it bluntly.. I do not believe you.
There are so many avenues you could have taken if true. Hell you would be rich.
Did you turn the people/companies in to authorities? Did you sue your employer that allowed it?

[nzjrs]

I thought the following quote described this situation best

[ENGINE TUNER]

Funny thing is people pretending that racism isn't a thing and that it doesn't exist (or isn't the big problem some say it is).

the law is the determiner of what's a big problem
the democratic process deciding when a problem or big problem is to be treated as some sort of crime
there's no shortage of laws in this area

crimes that exist only in someone's imagination aren't crimes
democracy was invented to ensure this
to stop people being punished for what others imagined was in their minds

someone acting against others because he thought their thoughts illegimate - isn't that an abuse worthy of Stalin or Hitler etc ?

and yesterday we were all told that we all deplore the plane-towed banner reading 'white lives matter Burnley'
by everybody not just by Burnley Football Club

the day before this our TV seemed show us the unfortunate slaves weren't abducted into slavery by their fellow Africans
so was that 'Roots' stuff 40 years ago all wrong ?

before democracy (white) English were bought or sold in England by their owners (if the top 2 ranks of nobility)
and a big point of democracy became the abolition of 'seignurial rights'
..... we're all descended from slaves

The lawmakers and the laws in the US have a long history of being racist and biased. The laws are nothing but white supremacist propaganda. There never was any democracy in the US, the "founding fathers" were racist and many were slave owners and rapists, who initially limited the vote to white land owning males. Many of the laws of the US were and still are racist.

[ENGINE TUNER]

Funny thing is people pretending that racism isn't a thing and that it doesn't exist (or isn't the big problem some say it is).

the law is the determiner of what's a big problem
the democratic process deciding when a problem or big problem is to be treated as some sort of crime
there's no shortage of laws in this area

The law states that discrimination on the basis of race (and sex, disability etc.) is a crime.

crimes that exist only in someone's imagination aren't crimes
democracy was invented to ensure this
to stop people being punished for what others imagined was in their minds

Er, no. Democracy was invented to allow certain people power over others so long as enough people of a certain view point could get together. Generally speaking, democracy only existed for those of a certain status, usually land owners or "free men".

[stalin stuff ignored as a red herring]

before democracy (white) English were bought or sold in England by their owners (if the top 2 ranks of nobility)
and a big point of democracy became the abolition of 'seignurial rights'
..... we're all descended from slaves

Nice attempt at derailment. Sure, go back far enough and just about anyone can claim "I'm from slave stock" just as many can claim they have royal blood if you back far enough. It's a straw man argument intended to deflect from a very real current issue.

The issue is whether one is currently discriminated against solely on the basis of the amount of melanin in your skin (or your religion, or your sex). Some people seem to think that doing so is OK. If you think that, fine, come out and say it. Don't hide behind veiled attempts to set up straw man counter arguments. "Man up", as is said in the current vernacular.

Excellently well said.

[ENGINE TUNER]

I thought the following quote described this situation best

Nonsense

As the picture above shows, the noose part of the garage door pull clearly broke off, it seemingly was put in a storage locker in that garage, it was later found by a crew member of the 43 car and reported to the proper authorities. None of the other garages have a noose as a garage door pull, leading to this possible misunderstanding.

The truth remains that the racial threats against nonwhites in the US is so prevalent that the worst was assumed BECAUSE IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME.

Nascar acted appropriately, the investigation was thorough, unlike how this type of thing is usually ignored or swept under the rug.

Pushing Bubbas car and the show of support was something the drivers and their crew members wanted to do. Even if the noose wasn't a threat to Bubba, he has been receiving racial abuse since he entered Nascar and even more so since he joined the call to ban that racist flag.

[RZS10]

Not a single report on this story says anything about the "noose" being in the storage locker or that it "broke off" (ropes rarely do just break) ... the wording rather implies that it was still attached and that they came to the conclusion that it was already there because they had the old footage... isn't it more likely that it was taken as evidence?

[strad]

I'm inclined to think about the adage that to a man with a hammer everything looks like a nail.