New engine usage rule

[Birel99]

I know of many people in karting that use over 8 engines per season...

[ISLAMATRON]

Must the 18K rpm engine be a re-tuned version of last year's engine OR may the teams make physical changes?

What I am getting at is this: lower revs MIGHT allow the teams to SLIGHTLY lengthen the stroke and decrease the bore in order to create a "Monaco" engine that would give up some high-end power for more low-end?

Would it be allowable for the teams to submit two versions of the 18K engine?

short answer is no, they can change the trumpets & injectors and that is all.

[Kester]

@ Sawtooth-spike If a driver did completely blow/damage all of the 8 engines allocated for the entire season within the first 8 races, you will have the 10-place grid penalty at every race during the rest of the season you use an extra engine (9th engine in this case) which was not part of the original allocated 8 engines. Expanding on that line of thought, if your 9th engine had also been damaged beyond repair and you use a new, 10th engine, you'll have a 20-place grid demotion at every race you use that 10th engine...and so on. Reliability is really a big differentiator this season.

I'm surprised no one has corrected this already.

You will only get a single 10 place penalty the first time you use an additional engine over your specified 8. Therefore if in the first 8 races you blow all your engines, in the 9th race, with the 9th engine you will have a 10 place penalty. In the 10th race, as long as the 9th engine didn't blow, you would incur no penalty.

It later in the season that 9th engine blows, in the next race, when you use your 10th engine, another single 10 place penalty would be incurred.

[shir0]

You will only get a single 10 place penalty the first time you use an additional engine over your specified 8. Therefore if in the first 8 races you blow all your engines, in the 9th race, with the 9th engine you will have a 10 place penalty. In the 10th race, as long as the 9th engine didn't blow, you would incur no penalty.

ahmmm...

I suggest you read the rule again:

Article 28.4 a)...Should a driver use more than eight engines he will drop ten places on the starting grid at any Event during which an
additional engine is used.

I don't see anything that says "You will only get a single 10 place penalty the first time you use an additional engine...".

The article is specific about the application of the penalty. A penalty will be imposed "at any event during which an additional engine is used..."

A 9th engine is already an additional engine, however which way you want to look at it, based on the current rule. If at any time (race) you use that 9th engine, you get the penalty. 10th engine used? you get a 20-place grid penalty. That means any time a 10th engine is used, you go 20 places behind your qualifying position. And so on, and so forth.

What's interesting, if I may add, is this situation. Let's say, Felipe Massa was the first driver to use a 9th engine by, say, the 15th GP. Then, a very unlikely event happened that by the time of the final round/GP, everyone in the field are also running their 9th engine. If Massa qualified on pole for this race, even with the 10-place grid penalty, he will still be on pole!

[donskar]

You will only get a single 10 place penalty the first time you use an additional engine over your specified 8. Therefore if in the first 8 races you blow all your engines, in the 9th race, with the 9th engine you will have a 10 place penalty. In the 10th race, as long as the 9th engine didn't blow, you would incur no penalty.

ahmmm...

I suggest you read the rule again:

Article 28.4 a)...Should a driver use more than eight engines he will drop ten places on the starting grid at any Event during which an
additional engine is used.

I don't see anything that says "You will only get a single 10 place penalty the first time you use an additional engine...".

The article is specific about the application of the penalty. A penalty will be imposed "at any event during which an additional engine is used..."

A 9th engine is already an additional engine, however which way you want to look at it, based on the current rule. If at any time (race) you use that 9th engine, you get the penalty. 10th engine used? you get a 20-place grid penalty. That means any time a 10th engine is used, you go 20 places behind your qualifying position. And so on, and so forth.

What's interesting, if I may add, is this situation. Let's say, Felipe Massa was the first driver to use a 9th engine by, say, the 15th GP. Then, a very unlikely event happened that by the time of the final round/GP, everyone in the field are also running their 9th engine. If Massa qualified on pole for this race, even with the 10-place grid penalty, he will still be on pole!

So . . . If I am following this argument correctly, the engine usage rule is NOT totally insane. Just mostly insane.

But seriously (NOT!) where DOES a car start with a 20-place penalty in a field of less than 20? Tomorrow?

I am sitting here at my desk, correcting typo after typo (I've been on the job for 12.5 hours so far, and I can not tolerate caffeine!) trying to think of another top-level class of automotive competition where there are so many restrictions. Must be my fatigue. I keep forgetting that F1 is the pinnacle.

[Roland Ehnström]

Do you guys think this will mean that the teams will run special qualifying engines? Perhaps one special qualifying unit which will be used only in qualifying on tracks like Monza and Spa.

To answer my own question: http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/n ... 0053.shtml

[ISLAMATRON]

good rule... it would have been absurd to let the teams change the engines several times per weekend, especially when they are trying to cut costs by bringing less personel to the track each race weekend.

The engines are all homologated and should be pretty much the same so there wouldnt have been any special qually spec engines anyway.

[siskue2005]

what i can see from that rule is, now u can have separate engine for FP1 and FP2!
is it right?

[Roland Ehnström]

Yes, that is correct.

[axle]

what i can see from that rule is, now u can have separate engine for FP1 and FP2!
is it right?

A) why bother
B) Changing an engine in 2hrs is a bit of a push.

[Ian P.]

I have been trying to figure out a strategy to understand how the teams will spread out the 8 engines. At best 2.4 races per engine but somehow you need to exceed this just to get the season started.
If you consider the final events first, you want to save one engine for the last two races. Fine, 16 races and 7 engines. What about Monza and Spa, do you spread these out or use the best engine of the bunch for the two fast events.
In general you would likely use three race, old engines, for Fridays. But somewhere you need to do 2 races on some and 3 on others and still manage engines for Fridays.
Interesting problem.
No sense in asking for comments....there should be loads.

[Germanengineering]

With practice, qualifying, and the race this puts major stress on the engines. To use the same engine for three races is going to be extremely difficult. This is like the 1 tire rule that didn't work.

[ISLAMATRON]

I have been trying to figure out a strategy to understand how the teams will spread out the 8 engines. At best 2.4 races per engine but somehow you need to exceed this just to get the season started.
If you consider the final events first, you want to save one engine for the last two races. Fine, 16 races and 7 engines. What about Monza and Spa, do you spread these out or use the best engine of the bunch for the two fast events.
In general you would likely use three race, old engines, for Fridays. But somewhere you need to do 2 races on some and 3 on others and still manage engines for Fridays.
Interesting problem.
No sense in asking for comments....there should be loads.

Let's assume that both friday test sessions are equal to about 1 race distance

You'd want to pair up non engine tracks(Monaco, Hungary, Valencia & Singapore) with power tracks like SPA & Monza, unfortunatly for the teams the former are run a good way before the latter, so they wouldnt be completely fresh for Those fast blasts thru the forests.

Rain races inherently stress the engine less while Hot races like Malaysia & austrailia usually put higher than average stress on them.

This type of problem makes me wonder about the decision making software McLaren have developed over the years.

I think the teams can have a starting strategy but would change it according to unforseen situations such as accidents, retirements and rain.

I think we might see alot of front running cars retire early if they find themselves too far outside the points just to save engine milage.

[jddh1]

I think we might see a lot of front running cars retire early if they find themselves too far outside the points just to save engine mileage.

I can see that happening. If someone is 10 or so he won't retire, but if one is 12+ with 10 laps remaining, why not retire and save the engine.

[Conceptual]

A rebuild engine would count as a new one. Th rule is qute simple. You have 8 engines for everything in the season. Every raceweekend you come with an engine not from those 8 allowed you get penalised.

With this new rule, will we see 2nd drivers pulled from their cars in the last few races and replaced by the third driver, who by the wording of the regulations, would start with 8 new engines for the rest of the season?

I can see the WCC getting dicey if this is the case. If Piquet kills his 8 engine allotment in the first 8 races, is it better to pull him and put in the reserve driver with 8 fresh engines, and no penalties? If this is the case, we are going to see some cut-throat politics after Monza this year...