Are Mercedes creating the longest period of dominance on record?

[nzjrs]

Two huge regulation changes designed specifically to bring them down.

You say that like it's a bad thing? I think regulation changes to equalise the field are the DNA of F1.

You should be watching Indy, or some other spec series if your like your equalization.

Equalization through significant regulation change is a double edged sword, and one of those edges is the opportunity to start fresh with a blank piece of paper and innovate. Its invigorating and I am a fan of F1 for the engineering as much as the racing. A positive side effect of regulation change is a disruption which could tend toward equalization.

Performance and engineering cost/benefit tends to asymptote in any era after enough time. At that point it might as well be changed. One could probbbably make an economic/efficiency argument along the same lines.

I watch Indy too BTW, and I'll watch what I like. You should watch your mouth.

[TAG]

You say that like it's a bad thing? I think regulation changes to equalise the field are the DNA of F1.

You should be watching Indy, or some other spec series if your like your equalization.

Equalization through significant regulation change is a double edged sword, and one of those edges is the opportunity to start fresh with a blank piece of paper and innovate. Its invigorating and I am a fan of F1 for the engineering as much as the racing. A positive side effect of regulation change is a disruption which could tend toward equalization.

Performance and engineering cost/benefit tends to asymptote in any era after enough time. At that point it might as well be changed. One could probbbably make an economic/efficiency argument along the same lines.

I watch Indy too BTW, and I'll watch what I like. You should watch your mouth.

...and you should understand that other people have their opinions, and yours is but one. The thread is about dominance and the discussion about everything that's been done to assail the dominance Mercedes has asserted for 6 years now.

[nzjrs]

...and you should understand that other people have their opinions, and yours is but one. The thread is about dominance and everything that's been done to assail the dominance Mercedes has asserted for 6 years now.

Oh please, I do understand that, you telling people to 'watch something else' if they have different ideas about the governance of the sport isn't an opinion. You should have engaged with the body of my post.

[marvin78]

...and you should understand that other people have their opinions, and yours is but one. The thread is about dominance and everything that's been done to assail the dominance Mercedes has asserted for 6 years now.

Oh please, I do understand that, you telling people to 'watch something else' if they have different ideas about the governance of the sport isn't an opinion. You should have engaged with the body of my post.

That's true!

[TAG]

...and you should understand that other people have their opinions, and yours is but one. The thread is about dominance and everything that's been done to assail the dominance Mercedes has asserted for 6 years now.

Oh please, I do understand that, you telling people to 'watch something else' if they have different ideas about the governance of the sport isn't an opinion. You should have engaged with the body of my post.

as you engaged with the body of mine? love peace and harmony.

[nzjrs]

as you engaged with the body of mine? love peace and harmony.

Absolutely, please read it again if you missed it.

I'm not following you further down this rabbit hole just because I objected to being told to sod off. I made some points about the effect of regulation change on equalization on the field, I trust you enjoyed them.

[rgava]

I think, to answer the question on the title quickly: yes.

The reasons behind it...

Well, leaving aside the conspiracy theory:

They were the only ones to get it right from the go in the engine side. And from then they have had more time and resources to develop the chassis to the class of the field level.
Their main opponents Ferrari started with the left foot with the engine in this hybrid turbo era. They had a good opportunity when they launched the SF70 by introducing interesting innovation in sidepod packaging/cooling (and by that time their engine department was not far from Merc) but the others copied and developed their concept better than them. This year even Merc has implemented it.
RBR were stuck with and underpowered PU and limited flexibility of its integration during the first years. IMHO they were class of the field in their chassis and aero department but they have had to adapt their design philosophy to less power and changed engine midway. Said this, i believe they would have developed equal or better than Merc, shoud they have had same stability on the engine side.

These are my two cents on this

[Jolle]

I think, to answer the question on the title quickly: yes.

The reasons behind it...

Well, leaving aside the conspiracy theory:

They were the only ones to get it right from the go in the engine side. And from then they have had more time and resources to develop the chassis to the class of the field level.
Their main opponents Ferrari started with the left foot with the engine in this hybrid turbo era. They had a good opportunity when they launched the SF70 by introducing interesting innovation in sidepod packaging/cooling (and by that time their engine department was not far from Merc) but the others copied and developed their concept better than them. This year even Merc has implemented it.
RBR were stuck with and underpowered PU and limited flexibility of its integration during the first years. IMHO they were class of the field in their chassis and aero department but they have had to adapt their design philosophy to less power and changed engine midway. Said this, i believe they would have developed equal or better than Merc, shoud they have had same stability on the engine side.

These are my two cents on this

I believe that the engine played a big role, but also was/is part smoke screen. Their direct competitors RedBull and Ferrari just had their chassis and aero so wrong... Newey made a car again that was so shrunk down that it was overheating even in winter testing and Ferrari just had the whole front end upside down, where Mercedes went conservative with most components and had a brilliant lower single wishbone.

Don't forget, they had 2014 so wrong, that they were challenged by Williams.

[PlatinumZealot]

It seemed too that the low rake philosphy was not the limitting one as most experts thought it was! It's very likely that car rake is not even a big factor in ultimate performance just as much as the type of side pod you have. It is all about linking the flow structures and getting them to work in all conditions.. Getting the suspension system working to keep the right tyre patch and sensitivitt and stability.. Gettting the engine power.. Fuel efficient and driveable.. It is everything! mercedes has done the best job of getting everything on the car to work in harmonyb

[Jambier]

Next year will be 8 titles in a row!
The best (or worst) dominance period ever.
I'm very impressed by the great work of this team.

But obviously this is very boring... as F1 is supposed to be a competition, and also, I can't imagine what will happen if in 2022 they dominate again.

10 world title? It will kill Formula 1. The "issue" is that I don't see why they will suddenly lose, with the best engine, best team, there is no reason for them to create a bad 2022 car

[King Six]

A large part of their early dominance in the V6 era was down to the fact that they really knocked it out of the park with their power unit from day one. For a long time the discussions were just around the fact that the Mercedes engine was in a league of its own.

Ferrari and Renault were always playing catch up, and it was only recently that Honda stopped becoming so hopeless. They quickly nailed the aerodynamics and vehicle dynamics in combination with former and so there's little that will stand in their way.

Not to mention the fact that they've got one of the fastest and most competent drivers in the entire sports history to sit in their cars throughout that time...

[basti313]

Not to mention the fact that they've got one of the fastest and most competent drivers in the entire sports history to sit in their cars throughout that time...

Rosberg?

[basti313]

Next year will be 8 titles in a row!
The best (or worst) dominance period ever.
I'm very impressed by the great work of this team.

But obviously this is very boring... as F1 is supposed to be a competition, and also, I can't imagine what will happen if in 2022 they dominate again.

10 world title? It will kill Formula 1. The "issue" is that I don't see why they will suddenly lose, with the best engine, best team, there is no reason for them to create a bad 2022 car

Why should the Merc not be on top with the new rules? Looking at the current engine dominance, the aero may be well behind and they would be still a thread, somehow like Ferrari last season. But I do not think there is much to be behind on the simpler aero rules.

[Jolle]

Next year will be 8 titles in a row!
The best (or worst) dominance period ever.
I'm very impressed by the great work of this team.

But obviously this is very boring... as F1 is supposed to be a competition, and also, I can't imagine what will happen if in 2022 they dominate again.

10 world title? It will kill Formula 1. The "issue" is that I don't see why they will suddenly lose, with the best engine, best team, there is no reason for them to create a bad 2022 car

Why should the Merc not be on top with the new rules? Looking at the current engine dominance, the aero may be well behind and they would be still a thread, somehow like Ferrari last season. But I do not think there is much to be behind on the simpler aero rules.

Good history with complex rule changes, well structured team and the freeze of the power units. They aced 2009, 2014 and 2017. Their main competitors had to play catch-up each time so much that they were beaten by midfield teams on occasion.

[Mamba]

The entire engine token system was scrapped so other teams could catch up and there was a complete revision of aero and tires since the idea was that Newey would rule that regulation change. Two huge regulation changes designed specifically to bring them down.

The token system was removed for Mercedes too. You gave the team that already had a massive advantage in the engine department more room to play with while the others still had to catch up. How is that trying to bring them down? Freezing the Merc engines for a year and free development for the rest would have been another matter.

While yes, Newey was rumored to rule the new regulations they still required power to overcome that drag. Something Merc had. Plus, the 2017 rule change wasn't as severe as the '08 - '09 change. Everything you could do in 2016 you could do in 2017 only bigger and better. Merc were far above the rest in intricacy by 2016 so how would a chance to only up that bring them down? The only thing really that went against them was the tyres in 2017 and even that didn't cause 2005 Ferrari level issues for them.

Nobody can deny them their brilliance in what they have achieved, but you can't argue that an enormous amount in being done to try and stop them. Every second invention brought by Red Bull was banned for the following year or outlawed within a race or two when they were on top. This is easily 2000 - 2004 if not more levels of the FIA turning a blind eye to the dominating team. At least then they tried once or twice to halt Ferrari like with tyre regulations 2005 etc.