[ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

[GPR-A]

To be fair to expects it's Redbull themselves who didn't like the new simplified front wing no need to rehash the past these changes have to go through a voting process.each design philosophy follow the law of physics or aerodynamics so Rbr knew changes would hurt them.

OK Genius. Go ahead and predict which aero philosophy is going to get hurt the most in 2022. Which team is going to suffer the most of the top 3 and WHY. Also take a shot and predict, who will get more affected due to the 18 inch wheels and WHY. Don't come in 2022 and say, it was all done to done to help Mercedes further their dominance, just like it was done in 2014, 2017 and 2019.

I am sure all the arm chair experts around the world will keep mum now and come in 2022 to tell us, "they knew it would hurt so and so" and they knew "so and so would get it right". The question is, is there someone who can tell us now with clarity, certainty and authority!

[etusch]

Marko also praised the progress that Mercedes has made this year.

I'm taking off a hat to Mercedes. Now they are fast in all conditions. I'm afraid we won't see major changes this weekend. But we have found the causes of the problems we are having, and we are actively working on aerodynamics to eliminate them.

https://tr.motorsport.com/f1/news/marko ... n=widget-1

[langedweil]

Already posted in the silverstone 1 race thread, but may be worth to repost it here:
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/arti ... -f1-rivals

Basically saying that the high rake concept is doomed because of the simplified front wing rules leading to unstable aero. Didn't we discuss this here already? Don't want to recycle same ideas, but a new part of the picture may be that the RB16 seems to be designed to beat the slow speed corner advantage Merc had last year which would lead to the unstable aero problems they have right now.

To combine two things:
Could the cape under the nose in any way help slow speed cornering?

These so called experts are so pathetically predictable. Whoever is winning, declare the concept of their car is the best and the ongoing set of regulations hinder others' concepts. Mercedes struggled in 2017 to get the balance of their car right in 2017 and that car was extremely weak in low speed. All these so called experts blamed their low rake and longer wheel base. They sorted those problems without changing the philosophy.

Now suddenly, the high rake concept is wrong for the current regulations, just because Red Bull is going through challenges.

I have always said that it's about having right people in right places. Capable and Intelligent people can make different concepts work by having innovative solutions and have similarly effective outcomes. Believing that only one concept work at a time is utter rubbish.

Correct ... and aside of that, changing your philosophy a year before huge aero changes will be in place, knowing you're a couple of years behind in knowledge to a team like Merc will not help you either. Like stated by others, the Merc will most likely remain the team to beat, but the true potential deficit in is not the 0.5/1.0 seconds that's been visible so far.
Let's just hope RB gets things to swing soon, so there'll be some great battles between Ham en Ver ..
Aside the insanely close midfield (fun racing !), it would be great to not know the outcome of a race on Wednesday already.

[Wynters]

Since they last won a World Championship, what do people feel was the most competitive car designed by Red Bull?

[JordanMugen]

OK Genius. Go ahead and predict which aero philosophy is going to get hurt the most in 2022[/b]. Which team is going to suffer the most of the top 3 and WHY. Also take a shot and predict, who will get more affected due to the 18 inch wheels and WHY. Don't come in 2022 and say, it was all done to done to help Mercedes further their dominance, just like it was done in 2014, 2017 and 2019.

But they are ALL going to have design complete new aero philosophies for 2022, as they are completely new aerodynamic rules.

Good rear suspension packaging will however carryover, so that should advantage the superior Mercedes rear suspension and other teams who can also develop more aerodynamically beneficial rear suspensions to provide cleaner airflow over the diffuser and to the rear wing.

As we have seen in Formula 2, the switch to 18" tyres should be trivial for all the teams. Albeit F1 cars may have less suspension travel & more sophisticated anti-heave systems than F2, and may need a greater degree of re-engineering on that front.

All we know is that if the power unit disparity continues into 2022, that all Mercedes-powered teams will be at an advantage as more horsepower^ is always better in a racing car!

^ with the caveat of also having acceptable drivability and reliability

It remains a puzzle that there was the potential for Mercedes-Benz to supply Aston Martin power units to Red Bull Racing, but Mercedes-Benz never actioned this possibly and never contracted Red Bull Racing despite Red Bull Racing's good financial standing (instead losing out by supplying teams like Manor Racing which were insolvent)!?

Since they last won a World Championship, what do people feel was the most competitive car designed by Red Bull?

I believe it was the 2018 car, the Red Bull RB14 - Renault RE18. Both Ricciardo and Verstappen were consistently in the mix for a good result at many races, the chassis had good handling and traction (thanks to Mr. Pierre Wache, technical director and head of suspension (?)) and the Renault customer power unit provided consistent and adequate power.



It is such a shame that Red Bull were unable to retain the services of Mr. Daniel Avocado, as he is an ace.

[JordanMugen]

Correct ... and aside of that, changing your philosophy a year before huge aero changes will be in place, knowing you're a couple of years behind in knowledge to a team like Merc will not help you either.

It would be crazy for Red Bull Racing to do anything other than focus on their 2022 contender!

If they can fix the RB15 aero instability with some bolt-on parts they should of course do that, as fixing the handling imbalance will give a lot of performance... But it may not be worth developing the RB15 (and RB15B if that is what it will be called) beyond that IMO.

[JordanMugen]

Now suddenly, the high rake concept is wrong for the current regulations, just because Red Bull is going through challenges.

I have always said that it's about having right people in right places.

But Red Bull have the right people in the right places. They have Newey as chief designer, Fallows as chief aerodynamicist, Wache as technical director (responsible for suspension, tyres etc) and Marshall as chief engineering officer (i.e., responsible for manufacturing and integration AFAIK). They also have Monaghan and Wheatley as the engineering conduits between the factory and race team (as well as Newey and Marshall attending races).

What more do you want Horner to do!?

If Mercedes-Benz were comparatively weak, as they were between 2010 and 2013, then Red Bull would be a winning a lot, as Red Bull indeed did between 2010 and 2013. Competitive is relative after all!

It is quite possible that Red Bull Racing became stagnant after their success many years ago, and it would be right that therefore Red Bull Racing need to modernise and upgrade to keep up with the times.

But are we sure that Red Bull Racing actually have the same resources as Mercedes GP (the chassis side)? If they have less resources, then of course Mercedes are going to accelerate away given Mercedes is at least equally competently run...

[JordanMugen]

Redbulls concept is not baseless but proved itself by titles.

That was 7 years ago...

Remember how the stubbornly traditional McLaren MP4/6 eventually fell behind the aggressive Williams FW14, leaving McLaren to play catch-up with their more contemporary MP4/7A in the '92 season and beyond?

The MP4/1 may have been revolutionary in 1981, but 10 years later it was long in the tooth!

Mercedes's is same too. They choose and keep it by knowing what they are doing.

I don't know if Mercedes chassis is the same concept as 2012 - 2013, but if it is they have thrown a LOT of money at it to improve it!

Mercedes on the other hand, the whole concept of the W11 is directly relatable for the W05, so every part already has tons of data from every literation. You could call the W11 the W05G.

An interesting analysis! But I don't really see it?

Is the RB15 really just an RB9H!?

[dans79]

It remains a puzzle that there was the potential for Mercedes-Benz to supply Aston Martin power units to Red Bull Racing, but Mercedes-Benz never actioned this possibly and never contracted Red Bull Racing despite Red Bull Racing's good financial standing (instead losing out by supplying teams like Manor Racing which were insolvent)!?

It's not really surprising though, as RBR has never had a good relationship with their engine supplier. I can remember Newey making disparaging comments about Renault even when the car was winning WDCs and WCCs.

[JordanMugen]

It's not really surprising though, as RBR has never had a good relationship with their engine supplier.

That's hardly a sporting reason for Mercedes-Benz not to provide a supply!

[dans79]

It's not really surprising though, as RBR has never had a good relationship with their engine supplier.

That's hardly a sporting reason for Mercedes-Benz not to provide a supply!

F1 is also a business!

[ispano6]

Correct ... and aside of that, changing your philosophy a year before huge aero changes will be in place, knowing you're a couple of years behind in knowledge to a team like Merc will not help you either.

It would be crazy for Red Bull Racing to do anything other than focus on their 2022 contender!

If they can fix the RB15 aero instability with some bolt-on parts they should of course do that, as fixing the handling imbalance will give a lot of performance... But it may not be worth developing the RB15 (and RB15B if that is what it will be called) beyond that IMO.

Rb16, Rb15 was last years car.

[godlameroso]

I think RB will be ok, they're having strong sales, so hopefully, it can boost the race team a tad.

[Marti_EF3]

Thoughts on that first Silverstone race? We will see any improvements with that aero issue? Or it's too little time to solve it since Hungary?

[Wouter]

Thoughts on that first Silverstone race? We will see any improvements with that aero issue? Or it's too little time to solve it since Hungary?

Helmut Marko in the Kronen Zeitung 29.07.2020 06:50:

"I fear that nothing fundamental will change yet."
“But we have small parts with us [at Silverstone] in terms of aerodynamics.
Parts that should narrow our problem we had recently. "