Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

[holeindalip]

A non-race winner that has his seat because of Carlos Slim, recently the richest man alive, vs a 4-time WDC who won many races and managed to battle for the WDC against dominant Hamilton driving a super dominant Mercedes in which even Bottas can't engage him, whilst driving a Ferrari in a chaotic team with internal team principal power grab battles, a rookie teammate that got pushed in and causes a stir.

Yeah.

I think Perez is very much a good and quick driver, but against Vettel? No chance.

You make a good point there Man. I'd like to see Vettel with great equipment and zero pressure. I'm sure he'll make it interesting for us next year. And I still have a feeling that he's going to show LeClerc the way this year. His pressures this last year has won me over as a fan.

Don't get me wrong, I think Vettel himself made some pretty bad decisions (Baku for example) showing he doesn't really do good with relative pressure (remember Webber), and has made some rookie mistakes not fitting for a multi champion (singapore driving into kimi, etc), but let's be honest here, Hamilton and Rosberg made the same contacts in the 'heat'.

Now i must say that in 'the beginning' with Ferrari, Seb had the benefit of having his friend Kimi alongside who really wasn't pushing him at all in any 'competitive' or 'WDC result treatening' way, yet he didn't make it then either. On the other hand, it's not that the car was even remotely close to being able to take on the mighty Mercs. Still, he managed to stay in the WDC fights. In a F1 team which went from Domenicali to Marco Mattiacci to Arrivabene in record time, and that's just team principal reforms, you could say it didn't go down much different with 'key' personell either, and it seems that all this time it was pretty much chaotic and ego clashing in the entire line.
As if that wasn't enough, calm good guy 'outsider' Arrivabene, who clearly knows how to run and operate, called things by it's name and the Italian egos got all riled up inside the team and then 'biggest ego of them all' Binotto decided to slash around him and got the ONLY GUY who managed to stabilize the team OUT. In an era that Ferrari also had to deal with the death of their new 'big head' whom replaced Montezemolo only shortly before.
And somehow, LeClerc was pushed into a Ferrari race seat, a clearly fast and capable driver but also a clear primadonna.

Now we have the utter ego clashing chaos complete, and on top of it all, after ditching their former WDC Kimi, they now went so far as to ditch a loyal driver that got them many wins, many times near the WDC in a Merc Dominant era,
and don't offer him a contract but instead Ferrari is gonna go with 2 non-wdc drivers of which one NEVER has managed a race win OR a podium (he only managed after a penalty for Ham in brazil19 post podium), and the other has managed a few wins but is still inexperienced and took out both Ferrari's in race 2 due to his hot head.

To be honest, I think it's actually GOOD that Vettel is leaving Ferrari as it would have gone nowhere anyway, and he would have ended up just like Alonso. I think its another prime example that it wasn't Alonso that's responsible for not making another title with Ferrari. Both Vettel AND Alonso actually ended up in similar results and circumstances.

I would VERY much like to see Vettel in Aston Martin or RedBull now.

Without even the tiniest amount of doubt Vettel would do way better than either Perez or Stroll in the RacingPoint.
I wonder whether we could have seen Vettel get the RP at P3 last weekend. I think Stroll actually did very well in the race, and he ended P4. Bottas was being his usual self and Vettel is far better than Valterri. I'm confident Vettel would have kept that RP ahead of the Merc, or overtaken the Merc. The ONLY problem would be that there might be a call from Toto to let the black merc pass, which could even have happened at RP just the same. Hell, it might even be contractually agreed in any case at any position during the race.

And this is why i'd actually prefer to see Vettel @ Mercedes, and Bottas @ Aston Martin.
I don't see any difference at all between Bottas and Perez, i think they're similar.
The only reason Bottas has won is because of the Merc. A WDC he'll never be, nor will Perez.

Vettel @ RacingPoint/Aston Martin will ALWAYS end up in when the heat comes down to it, that Mercedes mothership team will make sure the RP's or AM's MUST step aside to let the Mercs pass. Mercedes wants 1-2 and it indulges AstonMartin (probably their B-team) 3-4 by giving it their '1 year old equipment' so that they will have no competition for the WDC and WCC titles since their 'true' rivals (RedBull and Ferrari, perhaps Mclaren) will have to battle AstonMartin FIRST before they can manage to rival Mercedes.

Because of that, when it comes down to it, no matter whether we have a battle for P1 between Hamilton in the Mclaren, and Vettel in the Aston Martin, Aston will come up with some 'fuel saving' crap, or some 'tire pressure warning' and call him either in or to take things slow so that Hamilton will get P1 guaranteed, and preferably see Bottas make P2 if Aston would threaten the WCC position of Mercedes.

It's why a ToroRosso/AlphaTauri driver would NEVER win a GP if they are batteling P1 with a RedBull driver.
It's why a AlfaRomeo/Sauber driver would NEVER win a GP if they are batteling P1 with a Ferrari driver.

So yes, i would really like to see Vettel @ Mercedes alongside Hamilton.
Vettel @ Aston Martin would not have the Ferrari ego pressure he has to deal with now.
But he'd still be 'muzzled' against the Mercs.
So if Vettel would be @ Mercedes at Hamilton's side, we'd see Vettel, a german driver, given the best of the best,
to race against the best of the best, with nothing holding him back.

We'd also finally see some REAL competition between Hamilton and his teammate, and i think it would be a vastly more interesting fight.

It would also make Mercedes have the strongest driver pairing in the field, and quite frankly, it would make the strongest team and pairing in the entire history of F1.

It would see a 7-time British WDC, with a 4-time German WDC, holding 11 titles together,
Ham with 86 wins and Vettel with 53 wins so 139 together (more by the end of this year),
7 WCC titles in the current era, and on and on and on, in a British-German team.

Even IF there would be a team in 2021 or 2022 that COULD challenge the Mercs CAR potential,
there is NO driver pairing in the world stronger than THAT combination.

Finally some competition between ham and his team mate? Just a reminder Hamilton has beaten 3 different world champions in equal machinery over his career, I would say it probably won’t turn out well for vettel.... imho

[PlatinumZealot]

......

It would see a 7-time British WDC, with a 4-time German WDC, holding 11 titles together,
Ham with 86 wins and Vettel with 53 wins so 139 together (more by the end of this year),
7 WCC titles in the current era, and on and on and on, in a British-German team.

Even IF there would be a team in 2021 or 2022 that COULD challenge the Mercs CAR potential,
there is NO driver pairing in the world stronger than THAT combination.

Hmm.. I don't think Vettel will be happy as Hamilton's teammate. Vettel does not do well with fast teamamtes. That much has been very clear. From a fan point of view, there was nothing more that I desired than to see Vettel Vs Hamilton, but not anymore; my curiosity had been fully satiated in 2017 and 2018. I am not even considering the overall championship positions here, but looking at the performances when the the two were in equally capable cars, Vettel showed what he could do, Hamilton did the same and I wont air my conclusions here, but I was satisfied in knowing the exact strengths of each driver. I no longer needed to see them in the same team anymore. Done and dusted. Nothing to get from that other than a big nuclear meltdown at Mercedes if the two paired up.

I think you underestimate Bottas and Perez. Bottas' qualifying performance against Massa was similar to what Alonso did to him. Perez, I have rated since his rookie season.. he did some things in the Sauber.. he almost won in 2012 in Malaysia. I think he has the pace to match the best of the best, we just haven't seen him stretch his legs in this Pink Panther yet.

[GPR-A]

I think he has the pace to match the best of the best,

His qualifying pace is mediocre at best, for the cars he has driven. Almost always got beaten by his team mate in quali. Not to mention, lacks complete spatial awareness. Ask Button (and a host of other drivers, Kimi, 2013 Monaco: "I want to hit him when I see him") and he will tell you. When was the last time he made a good pass in a combat?

[Jolle]

I'm not a Vettel fan but I do rate him higher then Perez, at least on a position as team leader. At Aston, he could use his skills well I think.

At Mercedes, I don't think they would match. The way Vettel works and the way Mercedes set up their team and how to get the maximum result is so different in my opinion.

Both Bottas and Hamilton are both super focused on their own performance and building up to that 300 km per weekend. The whole team is build around that. And both drivers are in a constant circle of self improvement. Vettel is much more busy with the world around him, to support him instead of looking in the mirror to his own performances on a daily basis.

At Aston, a lot of team building still has to be done, Vettel can play a good role in that. At Mercedes, where the team is working well, it's the lack of constant improvement that will put him wel behind Hamilton in no-time.

[ENGINE TUNER]

Perez is not as fast as Vettel, but he would score more points because Vettel is crash and mistake prone. RP would be foolish to take Vettel.

[Gothrek]

Someone mada a Grosjean/Maldonado Tribute to Smooth Criminal. Might be good for this boring Merc Dominant Season.

[dodds_turbo]

Is there likely to be anything in Vettel's contract that forces him to keep driving this donkey that Ferrari call an F1 car? Every race he strugges in is damaging his reputation. What would happen if he left, and replaced Perez in the middle of the year. Red Bull have shown that mid-year driver swaps are possible...

(as a sub-point) who is Ferrari's reserve driver this year?)
EDIT: RaceFans list the following as Ferrari's reserve drivers:
Antonio Giovinazzi
Antonio Fuoco
Davide Rigon
Pascal Wehrlein

Would we see a trial of Antonio Giovinazzi in a Ferrari for the rest of the year, and Kubica back in F1?
(sponsor Orlen would be happy)

[tangodjango]

You make a good point there Man. I'd like to see Vettel with great equipment and zero pressure. I'm sure he'll make it interesting for us next year. And I still have a feeling that he's going to show LeClerc the way this year. His pressures this last year has won me over as a fan.

Don't get me wrong, I think Vettel himself made some pretty bad decisions (Baku for example) showing he doesn't really do good with relative pressure (remember Webber), and has made some rookie mistakes not fitting for a multi champion (singapore driving into kimi, etc), but let's be honest here, Hamilton and Rosberg made the same contacts in the 'heat'.

Now i must say that in 'the beginning' with Ferrari, Seb had the benefit of having his friend Kimi alongside who really wasn't pushing him at all in any 'competitive' or 'WDC result treatening' way, yet he didn't make it then either. On the other hand, it's not that the car was even remotely close to being able to take on the mighty Mercs. Still, he managed to stay in the WDC fights. In a F1 team which went from Domenicali to Marco Mattiacci to Arrivabene in record time, and that's just team principal reforms, you could say it didn't go down much different with 'key' personell either, and it seems that all this time it was pretty much chaotic and ego clashing in the entire line.
As if that wasn't enough, calm good guy 'outsider' Arrivabene, who clearly knows how to run and operate, called things by it's name and the Italian egos got all riled up inside the team and then 'biggest ego of them all' Binotto decided to slash around him and got the ONLY GUY who managed to stabilize the team OUT. In an era that Ferrari also had to deal with the death of their new 'big head' whom replaced Montezemolo only shortly before.
And somehow, LeClerc was pushed into a Ferrari race seat, a clearly fast and capable driver but also a clear primadonna.

Now we have the utter ego clashing chaos complete, and on top of it all, after ditching their former WDC Kimi, they now went so far as to ditch a loyal driver that got them many wins, many times near the WDC in a Merc Dominant era,
and don't offer him a contract but instead Ferrari is gonna go with 2 non-wdc drivers of which one NEVER has managed a race win OR a podium (he only managed after a penalty for Ham in brazil19 post podium), and the other has managed a few wins but is still inexperienced and took out both Ferrari's in race 2 due to his hot head.

To be honest, I think it's actually GOOD that Vettel is leaving Ferrari as it would have gone nowhere anyway, and he would have ended up just like Alonso. I think its another prime example that it wasn't Alonso that's responsible for not making another title with Ferrari. Both Vettel AND Alonso actually ended up in similar results and circumstances.

I would VERY much like to see Vettel in Aston Martin or RedBull now.

Without even the tiniest amount of doubt Vettel would do way better than either Perez or Stroll in the RacingPoint.
I wonder whether we could have seen Vettel get the RP at P3 last weekend. I think Stroll actually did very well in the race, and he ended P4. Bottas was being his usual self and Vettel is far better than Valterri. I'm confident Vettel would have kept that RP ahead of the Merc, or overtaken the Merc. The ONLY problem would be that there might be a call from Toto to let the black merc pass, which could even have happened at RP just the same. Hell, it might even be contractually agreed in any case at any position during the race.

And this is why i'd actually prefer to see Vettel @ Mercedes, and Bottas @ Aston Martin.
I don't see any difference at all between Bottas and Perez, i think they're similar.
The only reason Bottas has won is because of the Merc. A WDC he'll never be, nor will Perez.

Vettel @ RacingPoint/Aston Martin will ALWAYS end up in when the heat comes down to it, that Mercedes mothership team will make sure the RP's or AM's MUST step aside to let the Mercs pass. Mercedes wants 1-2 and it indulges AstonMartin (probably their B-team) 3-4 by giving it their '1 year old equipment' so that they will have no competition for the WDC and WCC titles since their 'true' rivals (RedBull and Ferrari, perhaps Mclaren) will have to battle AstonMartin FIRST before they can manage to rival Mercedes.

Because of that, when it comes down to it, no matter whether we have a battle for P1 between Hamilton in the Mclaren, and Vettel in the Aston Martin, Aston will come up with some 'fuel saving' crap, or some 'tire pressure warning' and call him either in or to take things slow so that Hamilton will get P1 guaranteed, and preferably see Bottas make P2 if Aston would threaten the WCC position of Mercedes.

It's why a ToroRosso/AlphaTauri driver would NEVER win a GP if they are batteling P1 with a RedBull driver.
It's why a AlfaRomeo/Sauber driver would NEVER win a GP if they are batteling P1 with a Ferrari driver.

So yes, i would really like to see Vettel @ Mercedes alongside Hamilton.
Vettel @ Aston Martin would not have the Ferrari ego pressure he has to deal with now.
But he'd still be 'muzzled' against the Mercs.
So if Vettel would be @ Mercedes at Hamilton's side, we'd see Vettel, a german driver, given the best of the best,
to race against the best of the best, with nothing holding him back.

We'd also finally see some REAL competition between Hamilton and his teammate, and i think it would be a vastly more interesting fight.

It would also make Mercedes have the strongest driver pairing in the field, and quite frankly, it would make the strongest team and pairing in the entire history of F1.

It would see a 7-time British WDC, with a 4-time German WDC, holding 11 titles together,
Ham with 86 wins and Vettel with 53 wins so 139 together (more by the end of this year),
7 WCC titles in the current era, and on and on and on, in a British-German team.

Even IF there would be a team in 2021 or 2022 that COULD challenge the Mercs CAR potential,
there is NO driver pairing in the world stronger than THAT combination.

Finally some competition between ham and his team mate? Just a reminder Hamilton has beaten 3 different world champions in equal machinery over his career, I would say it probably won’t turn out well for vettel.... imho

Pretty much agree, Vettel has very little chance even if he were given the opportunity to go up against Lewis and based on the evidence since Germany 18 he has done very little to show he even deserves that chance.

[tangodjango]

A non-race winner that has his seat because of Carlos Slim, recently the richest man alive, vs a 4-time WDC who won many races and managed to battle for the WDC against dominant Hamilton driving a super dominant Mercedes in which even Bottas can't engage him, whilst driving a Ferrari in a chaotic team with internal team principal power grab battles, a rookie teammate that got pushed in and causes a stir.

Yeah.

I think Perez is very much a good and quick driver, but against Vettel? No chance.

You make a good point there Man. I'd like to see Vettel with great equipment and zero pressure. I'm sure he'll make it interesting for us next year. And I still have a feeling that he's going to show LeClerc the way this year. His pressures this last year has won me over as a fan.

Don't get me wrong, I think Vettel himself made some pretty bad decisions (Baku for example) showing he doesn't really do good with relative pressure (remember Webber), and has made some rookie mistakes not fitting for a multi champion (singapore driving into kimi, etc), but let's be honest here, Hamilton and Rosberg made the same contacts in the 'heat'.

Now i must say that in 'the beginning' with Ferrari, Seb had the benefit of having his friend Kimi alongside who really wasn't pushing him at all in any 'competitive' or 'WDC result treatening' way, yet he didn't make it then either. On the other hand, it's not that the car was even remotely close to being able to take on the mighty Mercs. Still, he managed to stay in the WDC fights. In a F1 team which went from Domenicali to Marco Mattiacci to Arrivabene in record time, and that's just team principal reforms, you could say it didn't go down much different with 'key' personell either, and it seems that all this time it was pretty much chaotic and ego clashing in the entire line.
As if that wasn't enough, calm good guy 'outsider' Arrivabene, who clearly knows how to run and operate, called things by it's name and the Italian egos got all riled up inside the team and then 'biggest ego of them all' Binotto decided to slash around him and got the ONLY GUY who managed to stabilize the team OUT. In an era that Ferrari also had to deal with the death of their new 'big head' whom replaced Montezemolo only shortly before.
And somehow, LeClerc was pushed into a Ferrari race seat, a clearly fast and capable driver but also a clear primadonna.

Now we have the utter ego clashing chaos complete, and on top of it all, after ditching their former WDC Kimi, they now went so far as to ditch a loyal driver that got them many wins, many times near the WDC in a Merc Dominant era,
and don't offer him a contract but instead Ferrari is gonna go with 2 non-wdc drivers of which one NEVER has managed a race win OR a podium (he only managed after a penalty for Ham in brazil19 post podium), and the other has managed a few wins but is still inexperienced and took out both Ferrari's in race 2 due to his hot head.

To be honest, I think it's actually GOOD that Vettel is leaving Ferrari as it would have gone nowhere anyway, and he would have ended up just like Alonso. I think its another prime example that it wasn't Alonso that's responsible for not making another title with Ferrari. Both Vettel AND Alonso actually ended up in similar results and circumstances.

I would VERY much like to see Vettel in Aston Martin or RedBull now.

Without even the tiniest amount of doubt Vettel would do way better than either Perez or Stroll in the RacingPoint.
I wonder whether we could have seen Vettel get the RP at P3 last weekend. I think Stroll actually did very well in the race, and he ended P4. Bottas was being his usual self and Vettel is far better than Valterri. I'm confident Vettel would have kept that RP ahead of the Merc, or overtaken the Merc. The ONLY problem would be that there might be a call from Toto to let the black merc pass, which could even have happened at RP just the same. Hell, it might even be contractually agreed in any case at any position during the race.

And this is why i'd actually prefer to see Vettel @ Mercedes, and Bottas @ Aston Martin.
I don't see any difference at all between Bottas and Perez, i think they're similar.
The only reason Bottas has won is because of the Merc. A WDC he'll never be, nor will Perez.

Vettel @ RacingPoint/Aston Martin will ALWAYS end up in when the heat comes down to it, that Mercedes mothership team will make sure the RP's or AM's MUST step aside to let the Mercs pass. Mercedes wants 1-2 and it indulges AstonMartin (probably their B-team) 3-4 by giving it their '1 year old equipment' so that they will have no competition for the WDC and WCC titles since their 'true' rivals (RedBull and Ferrari, perhaps Mclaren) will have to battle AstonMartin FIRST before they can manage to rival Mercedes.

Because of that, when it comes down to it, no matter whether we have a battle for P1 between Hamilton in the Mclaren, and Vettel in the Aston Martin, Aston will come up with some 'fuel saving' crap, or some 'tire pressure warning' and call him either in or to take things slow so that Hamilton will get P1 guaranteed, and preferably see Bottas make P2 if Aston would threaten the WCC position of Mercedes.

It's why a ToroRosso/AlphaTauri driver would NEVER win a GP if they are batteling P1 with a RedBull driver.
It's why a AlfaRomeo/Sauber driver would NEVER win a GP if they are batteling P1 with a Ferrari driver.

So yes, i would really like to see Vettel @ Mercedes alongside Hamilton.
Vettel @ Aston Martin would not have the Ferrari ego pressure he has to deal with now.
But he'd still be 'muzzled' against the Mercs.
So if Vettel would be @ Mercedes at Hamilton's side, we'd see Vettel, a german driver, given the best of the best,
to race against the best of the best, with nothing holding him back.

We'd also finally see some REAL competition between Hamilton and his teammate, and i think it would be a vastly more interesting fight.

It would also make Mercedes have the strongest driver pairing in the field, and quite frankly, it would make the strongest team and pairing in the entire history of F1.

It would see a 7-time British WDC, with a 4-time German WDC, holding 11 titles together,
Ham with 86 wins and Vettel with 53 wins so 139 together (more by the end of this year),
7 WCC titles in the current era, and on and on and on, in a British-German team.

Even IF there would be a team in 2021 or 2022 that COULD challenge the Mercs CAR potential,
there is NO driver pairing in the world stronger than THAT combination.

I must say the historical revisionism is absolutely spectacular in your post. Both 2017 and 2018 Ferrari absolutely had cars had could have won the WDC, it was a combination of driver errors, team and strategic operational issues and faulty upgrades that ended their challenges. There are many detailed reports that reach the same conclusion
after careful analysis (Chandok/Hughes etc) that in raw speed over the season the Ferrari's raw speed was right up there and arguably better than the Mercedes in 2018. Also Alonso/Max in the second Mercedes would be way stronger than Vettel who shows his lack of adaptability almost every single weekend this year when other mitigating factors are not at play.

[JordanMugen]

Is there likely to be anything in Vettel's contract that forces him to keep driving this donkey that Ferrari call an F1 car?

Donkey!? Ferrari's F1 car has finished on the podium twice.

Every race he strugges in is damaging his reputation.

Vettel has Leclerc's data, so why isn't he copying Leclerc's driving technique?

[Gothrek]

Is there likely to be anything in Vettel's contract that forces him to keep driving this donkey that Ferrari call an F1 car?

Donkey!? Ferrari's F1 car has finished on the podium twice.

Every race he strugges in is damaging his reputation.

Vettel has Leclerc's data, so why isn't he copying Leclerc's driving technique?

Not a single time on merrit for those podiums. Both times Leclerc has all the luck in world, just drives and stuff happens in front him gifting him a podium.
Ferrari really created a donkey this year, its almost sad to watch.

[raymondu999]

Vettel has Leclerc's data, so why isn't he copying Leclerc's driving technique?

I’m a huge Vettel fan, but this I do agree is one of his weak points. He seems to my eye a singular-style driver. I think his style is along the lines of Massa (though I do not believe Massa is of the same “speed” level) in using heavy braking to help the nose dive for that forward weight transfer on turn in, hence why needing that rear-heavy CofP to stabilise the car. When the car suits him I think he can get more out of the car than most other drivers in equal machinery, but when it doesn’t suit him he’s kind of lost. Hence why the 2010-2013 Red Bull philosophy of “downforce uber alles” suited him great.

Kimi and Button usually had a similar aversion to changing styles. Remember when 2012 or 2013 Monaco... Kimi’s style couldn’t make the front suspension work and he asked the engineers to spend the Thursday changing the suspension even though it meant he would lose FP1 and FP2.

Not a single time on merrit for those podiums. Both times Leclerc has all the luck in world, just drives and stuff happens in front him gifting him a podium.

I believe the term you’re looking for is not on *pace*. Leclerc benefited from others’ misfortune - but with that car what else can he do? All he can do is maximise the car within the limits of his ability, and whatever then happens he takes it. By which I mean... if you’re suggesting taking a podium “on merit” is by virtue of having a car “fast enough in a straight race” for it; then most likely that will never happen for Ferrari this year

[raymondu999]

Donkey!? Ferrari's F1 car has finished on the podium twice.

Doesn’t make it a good/fast car though. They’ve created a solid midfield car it seems, and through opportunism it has grabbed 2 podiums. It wasn’t out of being a good car - it was out of good race management

[PlatinumZealot]

It finished within a tenth of Verstappens RedBull so it is able to be quick, though it must be said, quick on a knife edge.

[djos]

Perez is not as fast as Vettel, but he would score more points because Vettel is crash and mistake prone. RP would be foolish to take Vettel.

Vettel has looked ordinary ever since the Blown diffusers got banned - I dont know why any team would want him now, he's past his used by date.