[ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

[etusch]

What rubbish. Honda has been in F1 hybrid for 6th year now. Why do they deserve free development? Why should the Honda teams get 7 or 8 engines per season? Why can't they build cars that can offset the power deficit?

Oil burning was a theory that wasn't proved. Even if it was oil burning that Mercedes was exploiting, they were exploiting an unregulated area, which was then REGULATED by putting a limit to oil burning. You can't make ZERO oil burning because oil is used as a lubricant in ICE. In 2015, their FRIC was also banned as it was an unregulated area and they could then attach FRIC suspension to aero purpose and banned it. It's not that Mercedes goes scot free if there is an area that they are exploiting that is not intended.

FIA approves innovations if it is inline with regulations, like DAS. If a manufacturer goes to FIA asking for allowing innovations that are in violation of regulations, they would obviously get shot. Just because Mercedes is going to FIA with innovation and because they are leading, should FIA reject their innovation, even if it is legal? What nonsense. Only because Honda is behind on power, their innovation should be accepted even if it is not legal, just because they are lagging?

Ferrari showed in 2015 that, a manufacturer can catch up after having a dismal 2014 season with their PU, even with token restricted development. They would most probably come back by next year again. FIA's job is not to artificially create competition by preventing the leading manufacturer and letting the lesser competitive one to come to front. That is just plain stupid. Rules should be same for everyone and whoever does a good job, deserves to win.

You are taking it completely wrong. If it is because of my bad English it is ok, but I see you are looking it wrong. You can not see my point.
Nobody prooved that Ferrari breach fuel limit, but Ferrari lost power with this regulations.
If das is legal and if they allow ideas if it is legal then why they've banned it for next season? If they have authority to ban something legal then what is your point?
As you can see here you are looking it completely wrong. They could ban das before the team invest it and this also would make competition closer. It is not "if it legal they are allowing it" thing.
I said Honda things for Honda's first years with McLaren. It was just an example we saw live that what will happen when new manufacturer came. When someone consider to come they will look what Honda lived.

[MtthsMlw]

Unless another one fails they can still make it through the season without penalties.

[GPR-A]

What rubbish. Honda has been in F1 hybrid for 6th year now. Why do they deserve free development? Why should the Honda teams get 7 or 8 engines per season? Why can't they build cars that can offset the power deficit?

Oil burning was a theory that wasn't proved. Even if it was oil burning that Mercedes was exploiting, they were exploiting an unregulated area, which was then REGULATED by putting a limit to oil burning. You can't make ZERO oil burning because oil is used as a lubricant in ICE. In 2015, their FRIC was also banned as it was an unregulated area and they could then attach FRIC suspension to aero purpose and banned it. It's not that Mercedes goes scot free if there is an area that they are exploiting that is not intended.

FIA approves innovations if it is inline with regulations, like DAS. If a manufacturer goes to FIA asking for allowing innovations that are in violation of regulations, they would obviously get shot. Just because Mercedes is going to FIA with innovation and because they are leading, should FIA reject their innovation, even if it is legal? What nonsense. Only because Honda is behind on power, their innovation should be accepted even if it is not legal, just because they are lagging?

Ferrari showed in 2015 that, a manufacturer can catch up after having a dismal 2014 season with their PU, even with token restricted development. They would most probably come back by next year again. FIA's job is not to artificially create competition by preventing the leading manufacturer and letting the lesser competitive one to come to front. That is just plain stupid. Rules should be same for everyone and whoever does a good job, deserves to win.

You are taking it completely wrong. If it is because of my bad English it is ok, but I see you are looking it wrong. You can not see my point.
Nobody prooved that Ferrari breach fuel limit, but Ferrari lost power with this regulations.
If das is legal and if they allow ideas if it is legal then why they've banned it for next season? If they have authority to ban something legal then what is your point?
As you can see here you are looking it completely wrong. They could ban das before the team invest it and this also would make competition closer. It is not "if it legal they are allowing it" thing.
I said Honda things for Honda's first years with McLaren. It was just an example we saw live that what will happen when new manufacturer came. When someone consider to come they will look what Honda lived.

DAS is banned for 2021 in a similar fashion to F-Duct. It wasn't illegal, but there were reasons outside of technical legality to ban them. FIA doesn't want teams to go spending for it.

In 2014, when Honda signed up with McLaren, they had the advantage of laying their hands on the class leading PU (Mercedes) that McLaren was using. They could see what that Mercedes PU is doing and how it is architected it. They also did not come under the token restrictions when they were building their PU in 2014, whereas all other manufacturers who were racing, were under the token restrictions. Despite that, they got it badly wrong. It's Honda's fault for not having converted such amazing opportunities. Why Mercedes be punished for others' inefficiencies?

As for other manufacturers, the FIA and Liberty simplified by the hybrid systems by removing MGU-H, but still, no new manufacturer turned up and they decided to cancel that idea. New manufacturers aren't coming because of budget reasons, not because of the technical complexity of the PU.

[MtthsMlw]

So Binotto hits back at Vettel saying he was more comprimised at the start than by the strategy.
While true that he is to blame for the start how do you explain the strategy?
First stop too early just to do 11 laps on hards and pit him again for used mediums to do 19 laps to the end.
Meanwhile Leclerc pulls of a one stopper without many difficulties.

[Scorpaguy]

Bino and Vet are done with each other...stick a fork in this relationship. Big Red could at least make it interesting for us the rest of this year and let Kub drive it a race or two.

I wonder just how bad Ferrari politics are? Recent stats show that Arri was the only TP that had the team on an upward trajectory. Take out unallowed fuel delivery/metering tricks, Bino's reign has to be seen as a total failure. Why is the team brass backing him so vocally?

[Fer.Fan]

Bino and Vet are done with each other...stick a fork in this relationship. Big Red could at least make it interesting for us the rest of this year and let Kub drive it a race or two.

I wonder just how bad Ferrari politics are? Recent stats show that Arri was the only TP that had the team on an upward trajectory. Take out unallowed fuel delivery/metering tricks, Bino's reign has to be seen as a total failure. Why is the team brass backing him so vocally?

Bacause who can replace him? It would not make car go any faster. Problem for Ferrari is much deeper. Just look at their car SF1000. It is underdeveloped compared to most of the top and midfeild cars. Look at aero, nose, suspention, bodywork and PU.
Ferrari have big problems with innovations and cardesign.

[Scorpaguy]

Bino and Vet are done with each other...stick a fork in this relationship. Big Red could at least make it interesting for us the rest of this year and let Kub drive it a race or two.

I wonder just how bad Ferrari politics are? Recent stats show that Arri was the only TP that had the team on an upward trajectory. Take out unallowed fuel delivery/metering tricks, Bino's reign has to be seen as a total failure. Why is the team brass backing him so vocally?

Bacause who can replace him? It would not make car go any faster. Problem for Ferrari is much deeper. Just look at their car SF1000. It is underdeveloped compared to most of the top and midfeild cars. Look at aero, nose, suspention, bodywork and PU.
Ferrari have big problems with innovations and cardesign.

While I somewhat agree with your sentiment, I do aver that canning a TP that was getting results and keeping one that is not is quite indicative of a broken system. I think a ground up reassessment and subsequent rebuild is in order. I actually thought Arri that person...not sure he would return (or should). I wonder if Vijay Mallya could take this on during probation...as the team needs a knowledgeable someone that can/is allowed to wield the reigns (PARTIALLY kidding here). I never thought Bino that person..was forced to eat crow for a bit last year..but was allowed to regurgitate due to fuel flow fiascos.

[Big Tea]

Bino and Vet are done with each other...stick a fork in this relationship. Big Red could at least make it interesting for us the rest of this year and let Kub drive it a race or two.

I wonder just how bad Ferrari politics are? Recent stats show that Arri was the only TP that had the team on an upward trajectory. Take out unallowed fuel delivery/metering tricks, Bino's reign has to be seen as a total failure. Why is the team brass backing him so vocally?

Bacause who can replace him? It would not make car go any faster. Problem for Ferrari is much deeper. Just look at their car SF1000. It is underdeveloped compared to most of the top and midfeild cars. Look at aero, nose, suspention, bodywork and PU.
Ferrari have big problems with innovations and cardesign.

While I somewhat agree with your sentiment, I do aver that canning a TP that was getting results and keeping one that is not is quite indicative of a broken system. I think a ground up reassessment and subsequent rebuild is in order. I actually thought Arri that person...not sure he would return (or should). I wonder if Vijay Mallya could take this on during probation...as the team needs a knowledgeable someone that can/is allowed to wield the reigns (PARTIALLY kidding here). I never thought Bino that person..was forced to eat crow for a bit last year..but was allowed to regurgitate due to fuel flow fiascos.

It also reinforces that TP is not the problem. Anyone who has a car that hits hard things in the road no matter how often you upgrade the headlights eventually gets the message, but it seems a long time coming

[Scorpaguy]

...good point, and I am not stating that the TP is all of the problem. However, the "buck has to stop" somewhere, and I ASSUME it stops at the TP. Way back, I posted the following "stats":

Arri oversaw 3 wins in 2015, 5 wins in 2017, and 6 wins in 2018. But yes, winless in 2016. However, 14 wins in 4 seasons is something that his predecessors did not manage in all of 2014, 2013, 2012, 2011, 2010, and part of 2009. His successor managed 3 wins in 2019. 2009-2014 average Ferrari WCC finish was 3.16...average under Arri was 2.25. Bino's only full season had him finish 2nd and is currently running 3rd (for an incomplete average of 2.5).


Sans "fuel flow gate", Bino would likely be winless. Big Red seems a strange place...dysfunctional really. The car looks absolutely 2019 with a dog motor..and Bino says it will be years to competitiveness-and he gets nothing but accolades from the brass.
Arri delivered results (some may say sparse, but results never the less) and was unceremoniously fired. Strange place to work it seems.

[GPR-A]

The more time passes, the more it is becoming evident that, Ferrari probably put so much energy in that fuel trickery all this long and it is baffling that, they never ran a parallel area of development, JUST IN CASE if that grey area gets covered. Binotto was and is (given his large span) also the engine head. So, he has to take complete blame and not having driven multiple streams of PU development. They seem to be around 50HP down and the chassis isn't in any great place either. That is not to say he should be fired. They simply need to focus on doing the right things with innovations.

They have an Alonso like driver who is always taking the car to places that capitalizes on the mediocrity of others around. The best thing so far is that, neither Elkann nor Camilleri are coming out unnecessarily hungry for success, making unwanted war cries like their predecessors. That is ideal and now it's about Binotto pulling together right group of people and empower them to do a good job and have a good long term projects in the pipeline.

[Big Tea]

The more time passes, the more it is becoming evident that, Ferrari probably put so much energy in that fuel trickery all this long and it is baffling that, they never ran a parallel area of development, JUST IN CASE if that grey area gets covered. Binotto was and is (given his large span) also the engine head. So, he has to take complete blame and not having driven multiple streams of PU development. They seem to be around 50HP down and the chassis isn't in any great place either. That is not to say he should be fired. They simply need to focus on doing the right things with innovations.

They have an Alonso like driver who is always taking the car to places that capitalizes on the mediocrity of others around. The best thing so far is that, neither Elkann nor Camilleri are coming out unnecessarily hungry for success, making unwanted war cries like their predecessors. That is ideal and now it's about Binotto pulling together right group of people and empower them to do a good job and have a good long term projects in the pipeline.

This is also a good point, a driver that 'just drives the wheels off' probably gives a little wiggle room to the team, so maybe they can now get on with a god car the usual way instead of looking for the killer secret all the time.

Mclaren went this way for a few years and now they have gone back to just making the best car they can without the miracle ingredient they are a different team. Ferrari seem to be always looking for the giant step rather than tip-toe-ing up and jumping from there.

[Racer X]

Rumors about Vettel not finishing the season are beginning to appear. Which I assume are not true'.

But if they are who do they bring up? Kimi? Bring up a veteran?

[godlameroso]

Rumors about Vettel not finishing the season are beginning to appear. Which I assume are not true'.

But if they are who do they bring up? Kimi? Bring up a veteran?

Da Hulk of course.

[Racer X]

Rumors about Vettel not finishing the season are beginning to appear. Which I assume are not true'.

But if they are who do they bring up? Kimi? Bring up a veteran?

Da Hulk of course.

You guys really don't think they would bring up some one who won't threaten Sainz next year? Like Kimi'? Or even Gio.... (Hope not)...

[outsid3r]

Rumors about Vettel not finishing the season are beginning to appear. Which I assume are not true'.

But if they are who do they bring up? Kimi? Bring up a veteran?

Da Hulk of course.

You guys really don't think they would bring up some one who won't threaten Sainz next year? Like Kimi'? Or even Gio.... (Hope not)...

So looks like there was an issue with Vettel's car after all. If he gains some ground in Spain I'm sure all the rumours about not finishing the season will go away...

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... Q5CVQ.html

Edit: I really hope he does well... the media have been dragging him through the mud for a few weeks now, the guy deserves a break