[ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

[Big Tea]

But what is stopping the other makers adding a mode to their car?
From another site

“The ICE performance is changed, for example, by varying the amount of fuel that is injected into the combustion chamber or by changing the timing of the ignition. For the hybrid side of the power unit, the modes will alter the interaction and scheduling of the electrical energy for both deployment of the 120kW (maximum) MGU-K and recovery of both the MGU-K and MGU-H.”
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If Merc can do it and the others cannot, then the Merc engine has spare capacity and the others do not. Merc incorporates this in a race mode and we are back to the same place but with a stronger race Merc

[etusch]

Lets hope this is true.

FIA plans ban on ‘qualifying mode’ engine settings in 2021

12th August 2020, 13:02 | Written by Dieter Rencken and Keith Collantine

The FIA intends to ban the high-performance ‘qualifying mode’ engine settings developed by Mercedes and other engine manufacturers, RaceFans has learned.

RaceFans understands the FIA’s intention to outlaw such modes were outlined in a letter sent to teams yesterday by the governing body’s secretary general for sport Peter Bayer.

In the letter, confirmed by several sources, the FIA described its intention to clarify the use of modes for the 2021 F1 season by stipulating that the performance settings used by teams in qualifying must be the same as those used in the race. The requirement could be enforced using the existing parc ferme regulations which restrict set-up changes between the two sessions.

Max Verstappen believes part of Red Bull’s current performance deficit to Mercedes in qualifying is due to the differences in their engine modes.

https://www.racefans.net/2020/08/12/fia ... s-in-2021/

I can not see how that would work. All they would need to do is incorporate the 'mode' into a normal race strat and just not let the driver use it without permission.

In fact, I suspect the same mode is available to a driver during the race anyway. Example Lando being told to go to a particular 'strat' in the last lap of a race when he needed 'ballsout mode'

Fia can go with modes and setting they used now for race and Q and can foce them to axe Q ones of software and settings.
Additionally fia can force using higher mode of a car 3 laps back to back at least once during a race with same lap times needed which can not be made by Q mode

[Big Tea]

Lets hope this is true.




https://www.racefans.net/2020/08/12/fia ... s-in-2021/

I can not see how that would work. All they would need to do is incorporate the 'mode' into a normal race strat and just not let the driver use it without permission.

In fact, I suspect the same mode is available to a driver during the race anyway. Example Lando being told to go to a particular 'strat' in the last lap of a race when he needed 'ballsout mode'

Fia can go with modes and setting they used now for race and Q and can foce them to axe Q ones of software and settings.
Additionally fia can force using higher mode of a car 3 laps back to back at least once during a race with same lap times needed which can not be made by Q mode

But if they use that exact same mode in a race, it is no longer a qualifying mode but a high race mode. Even thoough nothing but the name has changed. They can not mandate that full power cannot be used during a race can they?

They would not need to hammer it, just have it selected.

[etusch]

But what is stopping the other makers adding a mode to their car?
From another site

“The ICE performance is changed, for example, by varying the amount of fuel that is injected into the combustion chamber or by changing the timing of the ignition. For the hybrid side of the power unit, the modes will alter the interaction and scheduling of the electrical energy for both deployment of the 120kW (maximum) MGU-K and recovery of both the MGU-K and MGU-H.”
-
If Merc can do it and the others cannot, then the Merc engine has spare capacity and the others do not. Merc incorporates this in a race mode and we are back to the same place but with a stronger race Merc

We know that every team has battery which has same capasity and 120 kw electric power per lap, right? I don't know if there is some one genious who starts to Q lap with unfilled battery. So it must be because of ice if some team faster than its own Q lap at Q 3.

[etusch]

I can not see how that would work. All they would need to do is incorporate the 'mode' into a normal race strat and just not let the driver use it without permission.

In fact, I suspect the same mode is available to a driver during the race anyway. Example Lando being told to go to a particular 'strat' in the last lap of a race when he needed 'ballsout mode'

Fia can go with modes and setting they used now for race and Q and can foce them to axe Q ones of software and settings.
Additionally fia can force using higher mode of a car 3 laps back to back at least once during a race with same lap times needed which can not be made by Q mode

But if they use that exact same mode in a race, it is no longer a qualifying mode but a high race mode. Even thoough nothing but the name has changed. They can not mandate that full power cannot be used during a race can they?

They would not need to hammer it, just have it selected.

telemetry must overcome of that. why you choose higher mode and go as fast as lower mode can do? this is cheating

[Big Tea]

But what is stopping the other makers adding a mode to their car?
From another site

“The ICE performance is changed, for example, by varying the amount of fuel that is injected into the combustion chamber or by changing the timing of the ignition. For the hybrid side of the power unit, the modes will alter the interaction and scheduling of the electrical energy for both deployment of the 120kW (maximum) MGU-K and recovery of both the MGU-K and MGU-H.”
-
If Merc can do it and the others cannot, then the Merc engine has spare capacity and the others do not. Merc incorporates this in a race mode and we are back to the same place but with a stronger race Merc

We know that every team has battery which has same capasity 120 kw electric power, right? I don't know if there is some one genious who starts to Q lap with unfilled battery. So it must be because of ice if some team faster them its own Q lap at Q 3.

But just using terminology, call it overtaking mode. That mode has to be available during the race as they go to Parc ferme after qualli. Just as it is now, but now named qualli or party mode. Also, this mode has to by rule be available to all customers of that engine. It is not just a setting used my merc, although they are probably masters of it

[Big Tea]

Fia can go with modes and setting they used now for race and Q and can foce them to axe Q ones of software and settings.
Additionally fia can force using higher mode of a car 3 laps back to back at least once during a race with same lap times needed which can not be made by Q mode

But if they use that exact same mode in a race, it is no longer a qualifying mode but a high race mode. Even thoough nothing but the name has changed. They can not mandate that full power cannot be used during a race can they?

They would not need to hammer it, just have it selected.

telemetry must overcome of that. why you choose higher mode and go as fast as lower mode can do? this is cheating

How? its like easing off when you are in front and cruising. The extra grunt is there if you need it, you are just not using it.
Edit

Dont know, just guessing, but I would think there is nothing in qualli mode that can not be done with a combination of other settings, just they are gathered in one place rather tha individual setting adjusted.

[1158]

I suppose they could make it so PU modes can't be changed while on track and only in the pits (remember VER in Monaco last year when he was stuck on a bad setting that could only be changed in the pitlane). That would force teams to use their Q mode for the first stint of the race. I think that's the only way to address this . Do we really want more big brother oversight?

[Big Tea]

I suppose they could make it so PU modes can't be changed while on track and only in the pits (remember VER in Monaco last year when he was stuck on a bad setting that could only be changed in the pitlane). That would force teams to use their Q mode for the first stint of the race. I think that's the only way to address this . Do we really want more big brother oversight?

Aaaand on which engine was this

[etusch]

But if they use that exact same mode in a race, it is no longer a qualifying mode but a high race mode. Even thoough nothing but the name has changed. They can not mandate that full power cannot be used during a race can they?

They would not need to hammer it, just have it selected.

telemetry must overcome of that. why you choose higher mode and go as fast as lower mode can do? this is cheating

How? its like easing off when you are in front and cruising. The extra grunt is there if you need it, you are just not using it.
Edit

Dont know, just guessing, but I would think there is nothing in qualli mode that can not be done with a combination of other settings, just they are gathered in one place rather tha individual setting adjusted.

I think forcing Teams to use higher mode at race back to back 3 laps with full throttle with same lap times will be enough.
It is not easy thing but looks achievable.
If I were I just say "you can not burn anything but gasoline" is enough.
It must be known how much oil must be burned because of engine nature. They must see it as intentinally burned if oil level lower than that. ( or any other thing which is coming combustion Chamber from another place of fuel pipe. )This is another Challenge.

[Big Tea]

telemetry must overcome of that. why you choose higher mode and go as fast as lower mode can do? this is cheating

How? its like easing off when you are in front and cruising. The extra grunt is there if you need it, you are just not using it.
Edit

Dont know, just guessing, but I would think there is nothing in qualli mode that can not be done with a combination of other settings, just they are gathered in one place rather tha individual setting adjusted.

I think forcing Teams to use higher mode at race back to back 3 laps with full throttle with same lap times will be enough.
It is not easy thing but looks achievable.
If I were I just say "you can not burn anything but gasoline" is enough.
It must be known how much oil must be burned because of engine nature. They must see it as intentinally burned if oil level lower than that. ( or any other thing which is coming combustion Chamber from another place of fuel pipe. )This is another Challenge.

So first 3 laps in qualli mode then back to economy? Sounds pretty much what they do now really, except they favour recovery more maybe. I really see no way to mandate what the maximum or minimum engine (and just as importantly) recovery settings must be during a race. I am not disagreeing with your principle, just how it would be enforced. Would all cars have to do the same, Just Mercedes engine cars, or just the pole car?

It would just not be possible, but there are cleverer people than me working on it so we will see.

[Revs84]

Just read this on Motorsport.com Italy as well. It seems like the idea is to force the driver to start on the same mapping they qualify on. My understanding is that they would need to use it all race.

It's pretty much banning the quali mode in a polite way.

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-20 ... n=widget-1

[TNTHead]

Just read this on Motorsport.com Italy as well. It seems like the idea is to force the driver to start on the same mapping they qualify on. My understanding is that they would need to use it all race.

It's pretty much banning the quali mode in a polite way.

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-20 ... n=widget-1

I think if they ban different modes during the race and qualy you can enforce this much better (thus: one mapping during qualy and race). The engine mappings will not be anymore divided in max power (quali mode/overtake mode) and economy mode, but will be an optimum between those two. Then reliability will become into play as well.

[MtthsMlw]

Just read this on Motorsport.com Italy as well. It seems like the idea is to force the driver to start on the same mapping they qualify on. My understanding is that they would need to use it all race.

It's pretty much banning the quali mode in a polite way.

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-20 ... n=widget-1

No way.
That would stop any variation in power output or varying SOC levels, and what about fuel consumption?

[godlameroso]

Just read this on Motorsport.com Italy as well. It seems like the idea is to force the driver to start on the same mapping they qualify on. My understanding is that they would need to use it all race.

It's pretty much banning the quali mode in a polite way.

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-20 ... n=widget-1

I think if they ban different modes during the race and qualy you can enforce this much better (thus: one mapping during qualy and race). The engine mappings will not be anymore divided in max power (quali mode/overtake mode) and economy mode, but will be an optimum between those two. Then reliability will become into play as well.

This will hugely benefit teams with very efficient turbines then. If this is a cost cutting measure, it won't work, the manufacturers will now throw money at more and more efficient turbines. Because it's basically banning electric supercharger mode?