[ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

[PowerandtheGlory]

There’s really no need to pursue any further, since Renault and Ferrari will see it to the bitter end, it only takes one team, but there are two involved. Both are manufacturers and one of the two is the sport’s biggest team. I’m pretty sure Renault and Ferrari have the means and expertise to articulate the issue.

I agree with the above but this comes up as a surprise after seeing how offensive Zak was, even calling the arguments given by RP a BS

True, but I think it has shown that it would be a wrong assumption that McLaren would automatically follow Mercedes talking points. The very public rebuke alone sends a strong message. Zak was one of the first people to call the RP20 CopyPoint, Andreas consistently refers to it as last years Mercedes. Also, notice the contrasting positions between Mercedes and McLaren on the upcoming Concorde agreement, they are at opposing ends. So I think McLaren have sent a clear message with all these.

I think Zak is entitled to say the reasons they gave we rubbish, if you read the outputs, almost all teans were up in arms, until mercedes told mclaren and williams to be quiet...
however RP’s team principal actually aimed a ‘personal’ attack at Zak brown, which totally steps it up from what zak said.
That shows a lack if class...

[mwillems]

I agree with the above but this comes up as a surprise after seeing how offensive Zak was, even calling the arguments given by RP a BS

True, but I think it has shown that it would be a wrong assumption that McLaren would automatically follow Mercedes talking points. The very public rebuke alone sends a strong message. Zak was one of the first people to call the RP20 CopyPoint, Andreas consistently refers to it as last years Mercedes. Also, notice the contrasting positions between Mercedes and McLaren on the upcoming Concorde agreement, they are at opposing ends. So I think McLaren have sent a clear message with all these.

I think Zak is entitled to say the reasons they gave we rubbish, if you read the outputs, almost all teans were up in arms, until mercedes told mclaren and williams to be quiet...
however RP’s team principal actually aimed a ‘personal’ attack at Zak brown, which totally steps it up from what zak said.
That shows a lack if class...

What was this personal attack?

[Chicane]

McLaren have three clear challenges at their hand.

1) McLaren still have not overcome their slow corner issue, especially the type you find in S3 in Barcelona.

2) They have not developed a tailored low-medium downforce package which can be of use to change tack during GP weekends. Renault and Ferrari benefited from this at Silverstone. McLaren have a basic Medium and High downforce package. Last year they did not even have a proper low downforce package for Spa. If McLaren aspire to boss the midfield consistently they have to have different configurations. Ferrari said they got around two tenths by running a tailored low-medium downforce package at Silverstone.

3) McLaren have to raise their game as far as upgrades are concerned. Renault and Ferrari have been way more aggressive with their development plans. Ivan Roldan mentioned that the latest bargeboard upgrades seen in Silverstone were supposed to arrive originally in Melbourne. To make that step to the top of the midfield they have to bring on upgrades at regular intervals.

[Big Tea]

McLaren have three clear challenges at their hand.

1) McLaren still have not overcome their slow corner issue, especially the type you find in S3 in Barcelona.

2) They have not developed a tailored low-medium downforce package which can be of use to change tack during GP weekends. Renault and Ferrari benefited from this at Silverstone. McLaren have a basic Medium and High downforce package. Last year they did not even have a proper low downforce package for Spa. If McLaren aspire to boss the midfield consistently they have to have different configurations. Ferrari said they got around two tenths by running a tailored low-medium downforce package at Silverstone.

3) McLaren have to raise their game as far as upgrades are concerned. Renault and Ferrari have been way more aggressive with their development plans. Ivan Roldan mentioned that the latest bargeboard upgrades seen in Silverstone were supposed to arrive originally in Melbourne. To make that step to the top of the midfield they have to bring on upgrades at regular intervals.

Ferrari and Mclaren are starting from different places. I would prefer to see Mclaren mover forward more slowly and not go off on a bad spur, which would mean they have to come back to a known point and have wasted how ever long and however much resources on a bad trip. They are progressing well. I would like to see them move more quickly, but would dislike even mor them having to throw away a month of time and research

[PowerandtheGlory]

True, but I think it has shown that it would be a wrong assumption that McLaren would automatically follow Mercedes talking points. The very public rebuke alone sends a strong message. Zak was one of the first people to call the RP20 CopyPoint, Andreas consistently refers to it as last years Mercedes. Also, notice the contrasting positions between Mercedes and McLaren on the upcoming Concorde agreement, they are at opposing ends. So I think McLaren have sent a clear message with all these.

I think Zak is entitled to say the reasons they gave we rubbish, if you read the outputs, almost all teans were up in arms, until mercedes told mclaren and williams to be quiet...
however RP’s team principal actually aimed a ‘personal’ attack at Zak brown, which totally steps it up from what zak said.
That shows a lack if class...

What was this personal attack?

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/15117 ... n-comments

"So Zak Brown, it is BS, because he's not an engineer," he said.

"He's got no idea what he's talking about. Zero.

"And I'm surprised at how little he knows about the rules of F1. It seems to me he knows more about historic racing than he does about F1."

[the EDGE]

I think Zak is entitled to say the reasons they gave we rubbish, if you read the outputs, almost all teans were up in arms, until mercedes told mclaren and williams to be quiet...
however RP’s team principal actually aimed a ‘personal’ attack at Zak brown, which totally steps it up from what zak said.
That shows a lack if class...

What was this personal attack?

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/15117 ... n-comments

"So Zak Brown, it is BS, because he's not an engineer," he said.

"He's got no idea what he's talking about. Zero.

"And I'm surprised at how little he knows about the rules of F1. It seems to me he knows more about historic racing than he does about F1."

And this from a man who’s team can’t even design their own car

[Big Tea]

Well the press are getting side tracked by this, Mclaren fans are getting sidetracked and agitated by this, I really hope Mclaren them selves are not putting too much effort or emotion into it.
They are just getting square after a bad period and are looking good again, something like this taking their eye off the ball will not be a good thing.
I hope that forget about it and let things go. The result will be the result and thats that. Keep on controlling what you can and do not waste time on other issues. The best way to protest is to be infront.

[Hoffman900]

Well the press are getting side tracked by this, Mclaren fans are getting sidetracked and agitated by this, I really hope Mclaren them selves are not putting too much effort or emotion into it.
They are just getting square after a bad period and are looking good again, something like this taking their eye off the ball will not be a good thing.
I hope that forget about it and let things go. The result will be the result and thats that. Keep on controlling what you can and do not waste time on other issues. The best way to protest is to be infront.

It's actually good PR for them to keep this up. It serves to rally the troops (aka fans) to their defense.

I think I posted this before but an old idiom in racing is "they must be cheating because they're beating me and I am cheating". F1 teams, drivers, etc all love playing the press and their fans against the opposing team. It's easier to sell to your sponsors and fans that you are getting beat because they are "cheating" and not because they successfully navigated the grey area in the rules and built a better car.

Zak is a shrewd guy. That's why he is. team boss. No doubt his statements are calculated to do what I mentioned above.

And it works! You see it on this very forum with accusations and implications based on nothing but media, team statements, and speculation. You think with the "technical" aspect of this forum people would be more subjective, but that's just not so as many are making arguments based on emotion alone. Since RP is in direct competition with Mclaren, Ferrari, and Renault for best of the rest, you bet they're going to diminish their efforts via media.

[Macklaren]

McL is like RBR in that way - the team principal in charge of trackside and factory ops is different from the CEO. Just as RBR has Horner and Marko, McLaren has Seidl and Zak. So they should be able to handle the PR/commercial side without distracting the team

[billamend]

I'm incredibly disappointed with McLaren. They should have pursued this further and they chickened down.

[the EDGE]

I'm incredibly disappointed with McLaren. They should have pursued this further and they chickened down.

We can thank Toto. I’m sure there’s something it for them, and Williams... and the cherry on top is the case goes ahead anyway, so nothing changes! Especially as chances are, Ferrari International Assistance will of course come to the rescue of struggling Ferrari who is pressing ahead

[CjC]

I'm incredibly disappointed with McLaren. They should have pursued this further and they chickened down.

I disagree, like others said there’s no point perusing the matter now. Ferrari are on the case so how much more political clout can Mclaren bring compared to Ferrari? None what so ever.
I’m glad Ferrari have taken the baton with Renault leaves Mclaren free to concentrate on improving their performance.
Also from what I gathered Mclaren are more bothered about it happening again and as the FIA have already stated their intent to stop any more copying then surely that’s the cease fire moment for Mclaren.

[billamend]

I understand those arguments, but if that was their logic, they didn’t need to signal their intention to appeal.

[Macklaren]

I think the board of Daimler is very picky...much like the MB-McL split in 2010 was forcibly initiated because of Spygate and the board's unwillingness to work with Mclaren after that (along with roadcar competition), this could be something Toto is telling Williams/McL to do to avoid political risk in the future. In any case, it is very clear where McL and Williams stand on this issue and the protest is still going ahead with other teams.

[Big Tea]

I think the board of Daimler is very picky...much like the MB-McL split in 2010 was forcibly initiated because of Spygate and the board's unwillingness to work with Mclaren after that (along with roadcar competition), this could be something Toto is telling Williams/McL to do to avoid political risk in the future. In any case, it is very clear where McL and Williams stand on this issue and the protest is still going ahead with other teams.

Just thought. Do we know about Williams protest? Which side of the fence were they? Against the 'poor' result of Renaults protest, or as RP, coming down on the 'unfair penalty' side?
Williams use the rear and some other parts of Merc and may have been intending to take more next year, which they now probably cannot unless the ruling is reversed.

Anyone sure of this? can not recall hearing either way