FIA wants to ban qualifying modes in 2021

[dans79]

Imo, the FIA is becoming far to overbearing. They seem hell bent of banning anything that allows a team or engine manufacture to differentiate themselves from the others. If they really wanted to save all the teams money, and make the racing super close, they should scap everything and just make it a spec series.

They're working very hard on achieving that objective right now.

Have been for quite a while now.

There doing it the most awkward efficient way possible. Not to mention it will never work, as all the big manufactures will pull out, as they will have no reason to be in f1 anymore.

[GPR-A]

Imo, the FIA is becoming far to overbearing. They seem hell bent of banning anything that allows a team or engine manufacture to differentiate themselves from the others. If they really wanted to save all the teams money, and make the racing super close, they should scap everything and just make it a spec series.

They're working very hard on achieving that objective right now.

Have been for quite a while now.

Having seen how FIA write regulations, they can't even get Spec Series regulations right. They should simply take an independent PU manufacturer and ask the teams to buy the PU from that manufacturer alone. Also have another independent manufacturer to provide the chassis. They anyway have a single tyre supplier already. Allow racing teams to add some carbon fibre here and there and there is going to be almost absolute parity and then it's all about driver and luck.

[Sieper]

But, In fact, if you look at the wording of the tweet today it seems that other teams might have built a case and presented that to FIA on what is happening with these qualy modes.

what tweat are you referring to specifically?

If the other teams have a case/proof, then they should protest, and if the team is breaking any regulations, then they should be fined heavily and stripped of all of their points.

This smacks of more closed doors bs.

This tweet by Albert Fabregas


English text

From Spa ownwards , FIA ​​wants engines to run with the same map, both in quali and during the race. Details have not been send to the teams yet. That could cause changes. Some teams don't understand some perfomances during quali. They are pointing at Mercedes now.

[basti313]

But Williams have had the Mercedes engines for YEARS and gone from almost best of the rest in 2014 to right down to the bottom of the pack for the last couple of seasons, with a slight renaissance this season. (While Merc have stayed top) That alone (combined with RP being very average for several years) tells you it's about way more than just the engine or what modes you can put it into. They are only really ahead of HAAS and Alpha who previously had..... Ferrari engines, so it's probably more a factor of Ferrari powered cars losing their advantage due the the new directives than anything else.

But actually you make an interesting point. If as part of Ferrari's 'secret deal' they are 'policing' engines with the FIA is it just a coincidence that THIS year is when they themselves are really stuck and struggling for power, and THIS is the season a decision comes to the fore about cutting engine power, some thing which would have a direct negative impact on all Ferrari's competitors but not Ferrari? Hmmmm....

Regarding Williams, yes, I also think it is more than the engine and their car is so crappy that even the best engine does not help. Now they got across Haas and Alpha who have better cars, but a bad engine.

Regarding Ferrari: I think it is good to level the engines now. We are running into a token system, even more restricted engine development. It does not make sense to cement the old development benefits.

It's not Williams' fault that Haas and Alpha are paying the price for their engine supplier getting caught out doing something they shouldn't have. Why should they be punished themselves because of it? They now have a better engine. Good luck to them. They've suffered enough over the last few years haven't they?

I think it's only good to level the engine NOW if you're looking at it from Ferrari's point of view rather than an objective point of view. Why not last year when Ferrari were fastest and taking a string of poles with their extra power?

If you look at it another way it absolutely makes sense to cement the old developments benefits so they actually serve a punishment for what they did, and now have to try extra hard to catch up. Again, it's no-one else's fault they got caught out doing something they shouldn't so why should everyone else have to neuter themselves and dance to Ferrari's tune just because they are suffering the consequences?

Well, Ferrari was caught with tricks that the FIA could not police...so with multiple TDs the tricks were banned middle of the season or weren't they?
Now we assume that the Q modes are also not really what the rules intend as from one point they trick the limits and on the other point spoil driver input. So where is the difference?

With engine modes and overtake button banned we might come back to a point where the driver really drives "unaided" and is not guided through the lap corner by corner which engine mode to use. Please see the last lap from Lando Norris in Austria, how ridiculous this is. For me this is clearly against the rule but the current normal...

[Just_a_fan]

The more one reads about it, the more obvious it is a way to try to help RedBull / Max against Mercedes in order to "make a spectacle". If Mercedes continue to beat RedBull, I expect further rule clarifications will be forthcoming to "level the playing field".

It annoys me in the same way that Ferrari continuing to get extra money via the Concorde Agreement annoys me.

[Big Tea]

The more one reads about it, the more obvious it is a way to try to help RedBull / Max against Mercedes in order to "make a spectacle". If Mercedes continue to beat RedBull, I expect further rule clarifications will be forthcoming to "level the playing field".

It annoys me in the same way that Ferrari continuing to get extra money via the Concorde Agreement annoys me.

So this is assuming Honda do not have a qualli mode? Could well be right, but it would also stop them developing one too

[Just_a_fan]

We know that the qualifying modes basically allow the cars to run much closer to their failure limits for a short period. Presumably, if that mode is no longer allowed, the teams will be able to run the engine a little bit harder for the race.

If the teams aren't allowed to adjuct the engine to prevent failure during a race, we'll see more DNFs and possibly more PU changes with the associated penalties.

Looking at the Law of Unintended Consequences, I can see this having a very silly effect on the season and not in a way that anyone thinks is a good way.

[Just_a_fan]

The more one reads about it, the more obvious it is a way to try to help RedBull / Max against Mercedes in order to "make a spectacle". If Mercedes continue to beat RedBull, I expect further rule clarifications will be forthcoming to "level the playing field".

It annoys me in the same way that Ferrari continuing to get extra money via the Concorde Agreement annoys me.

So this is assuming Honda do not have a qualli mode? Could well be right, but it would also stop them developing one too

Max and Horner have said that Mercedes's quali mode is better than theirs. So they have one it's just not as good. There's your smoking gun as to why this is being done mid season.

[El Scorchio]

Regarding Williams, yes, I also think it is more than the engine and their car is so crappy that even the best engine does not help. Now they got across Haas and Alpha who have better cars, but a bad engine.

Regarding Ferrari: I think it is good to level the engines now. We are running into a token system, even more restricted engine development. It does not make sense to cement the old development benefits.

It's not Williams' fault that Haas and Alpha are paying the price for their engine supplier getting caught out doing something they shouldn't have. Why should they be punished themselves because of it? They now have a better engine. Good luck to them. They've suffered enough over the last few years haven't they?

I think it's only good to level the engine NOW if you're looking at it from Ferrari's point of view rather than an objective point of view. Why not last year when Ferrari were fastest and taking a string of poles with their extra power?

If you look at it another way it absolutely makes sense to cement the old developments benefits so they actually serve a punishment for what they did, and now have to try extra hard to catch up. Again, it's no-one else's fault they got caught out doing something they shouldn't so why should everyone else have to neuter themselves and dance to Ferrari's tune just because they are suffering the consequences?

Well, Ferrari was caught with tricks that the FIA could not police...so with multiple TDs the tricks were banned middle of the season or weren't they?
Now we assume that the Q modes are also not really what the rules intend as from one point they trick the limits and on the other point spoil driver input. So where is the difference?

With engine modes and overtake button banned we might come back to a point where the driver really drives "unaided" and is not guided through the lap corner by corner which engine mode to use. Please see the last lap from Lando Norris in Austria, how ridiculous this is. For me this is clearly against the rule but the current normal...

But this is different. There hasn't been loads of talk and suspicion for months of any one cheating in the way Ferrari seemed to be last year. No parts have been requested for inspection etc. etc. Merc's quali mode is in no way a new thing, whereas Ferrari's pace jump was very sudden in the middle of a season and just in specific circumstances or parts of the track.

With engine modes and overtake button banned, we could come to a situation where no-one can overtake anyone, so it might make things even more uncompetitive and extremely dull to watch all through the field of 20. I don't have a strong feeling one way or another about drivers getting guidance or not but it's already been shown a blanket ban on it is not realistic.

The more I think about the timing of this, it just seems to be something done in order to specifically aid Ferrari and their customers, I am afraid, which for me casts a really dark cloud over the integrity of the sport- again. Reading the below from a news story on Racefans only makes me feel that even more.

Ferrari drivers say ‘quali mode’ ban “can only be positive” for them
2020 Spanish Grand PrixPosted on
13th August 2020, 16:11 | Written by Keith Collantine

The Ferrari drivers say the FIA’s planned ban on high-performance qualifying engine modes won’t affect them but could present problems for their rivals.

As RaceFans revealed yesterday, the sport’s governing body intends to force teams to use the same engine modes in qualifying and the race. They hope to enforce the restriction from the next round of the championship at Spa-Francorchamps.
Charles Leclerc said the restriction can only help Ferrari.

“To be honest I don’t think it will affect us so much, so I think it can only be positive for us,” he said.

“How much it will be beneficial it’s still to see. But for us I can say that we don’t have anything different from quali to the race so for us I don’t think it will change anything.”

Sebastian Vettel agreed the restriction is more likely to affect Ferrari’s rivals.

“As Charles says it doesn’t affect us this season so let’s wait and see what happens,” he said. “I think it always depends what you are able to pull off.

“I guess if you have something developed on your engine that you can normally run a certain amount of mileage with more power or more stress on the engine it’s probably not the best news. But from where we are right now as Charles says it doesn’t affect us.”

[GPR-A]

The more one reads about it, the more obvious it is a way to try to help RedBull / Max against Mercedes in order to "make a spectacle". If Mercedes continue to beat RedBull, I expect further rule clarifications will be forthcoming to "level the playing field".

It annoys me in the same way that Ferrari continuing to get extra money via the Concorde Agreement annoys me.

So this is assuming Honda do not have a qualli mode? Could well be right, but it would also stop them developing one too

Max and Horner have said that Mercedes's quali mode is better than theirs. So they have one it's just not as good. There's your smoking gun as to why this is being done mid season.

Poor Renault, finally had got some gun powder in their quali mode, now they would be stripped of it.

[dans79]

The more one reads about it, the more obvious it is a way to try to help RedBull / Max against Mercedes in order to "make a spectacle". If Mercedes continue to beat RedBull, I expect further rule clarifications will be forthcoming to "level the playing field".

It annoys me in the same way that Ferrari continuing to get extra money via the Concorde Agreement annoys me.

I agree 100%.

[El Scorchio]

So this is assuming Honda do not have a qualli mode? Could well be right, but it would also stop them developing one too

Max and Horner have said that Mercedes's quali mode is better than theirs. So they have one it's just not as good. There's your smoking gun as to why this is being done mid season.

Poor Renault, finally had got some gun powder in their quali mode, now they would be stripped of it.

So EVERYONE suffers except.... Ferrari. Who are in desperate need of some assistance.

[henry]

But, In fact, if you look at the wording of the tweet today it seems that other teams might have built a case and presented that to FIA on what is happening with these qualy modes.

what tweat are you referring to specifically?

If the other teams have a case/proof, then they should protest, and if the team is breaking any regulations, then they should be fined heavily and stripped of all of their points.

This smacks of more closed doors bs.

This tweet by Albert Fabregas


English text

From Spa ownwards , FIA ​​wants engines to run with the same map, both in quali and during the race. Details have not been send to the teams yet. That could cause changes. Some teams don't understand some perfomances during quali. They are pointing at Mercedes now.

So now it’s the same “map”, whatever that is. Given that the teams run many different modes in the race will this practise have to stop? Removing the two selector dials from the steering wheels would seem the simplest move, and nicely visible to fans.

Given that they don’t understand it might not be beyond possibility that having a single mode will make things worse.

[MtthsMlw]

what tweat are you referring to specifically?

If the other teams have a case/proof, then they should protest, and if the team is breaking any regulations, then they should be fined heavily and stripped of all of their points.

This smacks of more closed doors bs.

This tweet by Albert Fabregas


English text

From Spa ownwards , FIA ​​wants engines to run with the same map, both in quali and during the race. Details have not been send to the teams yet. That could cause changes. Some teams don't understand some perfomances during quali. They are pointing at Mercedes now.

So now it’s the same “map”, whatever that is. Given that the teams run many different modes in the race will this practise have to stop? Removing the two selector dials from the steering wheels would seem the simplest move, and nicely visible to fans.

Given that they don’t understand it might not be beyond possibility that having a single mode will make things worse.

One mode only would benefit the most efficient engine wouldn't it?

[dans79]

English text

From Spa ownwards , FIA ​​wants engines to run with the same map, both in quali and during the race. Details have not been send to the teams yet. That could cause changes. Some teams don't understand some perfomances during quali. They are pointing at Mercedes now.

Then they should present data to the fia like RBR and Mercedes did last year, or better yet protest like Jean todt is always saying teams should do. The behind closed doors stuff is a cowards move, If you want to point fingers then they should step out into the light and let everyone know who is doing the pointing.