FIA wants to ban qualifying modes in 2021

[saviour stivala]

''FIA wants teams to run the same ICE modes in both qualifying and the race''.
In my opinion understanding the FIA stand/directive, it is hard to objectively argue against.
‘’The multitude and complexity of PU modes being used makes-it extremely difficult for the FIA to monitor compliance with all PU-related regulations’’.
‘’The multitude and complexity of PU modes being used makes it necessary that the driver is instructed (in some cases) what mode he should use by his pit-wall, such instruction to driver are contrary to ‘’The driver should drive the car alone and unaided’’.

[dans79]

''FIA wants teams to run the same ICE modes in both qualifying and the race''.

That's still incredibly vague though. What if they run it for a lap does that count? what if they use it at the end of the strait to pull off an overtake? how many modes are they allowed to actually have?

The entire thing is a muddy unclear mess, but I expect nothing more from the FIA.

[henry]

They have to be careful though, this isn't purely a sporting issue. This has hardware ramifications that could require the small poor teams to have to dish out extra money for reliability reasons. That's the kind of thing that leads to lawsuits.

I think the expense will lie with the engine suppliers, developing the modes and providing lifetime guidance on their use.

I can’t think of any direct hardware consequences. What do you think they might be?

If i was an engine manufacture I would for sure have a clause in my contracts that makes sure I'm not not responsible for any potential liability issue caused by my clients using my product differently because of mid season rule changes/clarifications.

I'm sure we are going to see more failures now because people will be trying to use higher power modes during the race for more laps than are advisable to work around the rule.

As far as I know the teams have PU manufacturer engineer embedded with them and that person has to sanction any PU operation the team chooses. So no risk of them exceeding the manufacturers brief.

[dans79]

Another thing worth noting is that the entire driver should drive alone an unaided line if very questionable considering this news.

https://www.racefans.net/2020/08/12/dri ... -reviewed/

A rule outlawing ‘driver aids’ which led to both Haas drivers being penalised for discussing pit stops on the radio is to be reviewed at the request of the FIA.

In response to a question from RaceFans, FIA race director Michael Masi confirmed this regulation is to be reviewed.

“We will discuss, as we do with all parts of the regulations, anything that needs to be updated, revised or renewed from time to time,” he said. “The technical directive which that relates to is not different to any other regulation that may need to be considered, reviewed – or reviewed and the status quo stays. So that process is already underway and working with all of the teams, not just individuals.”

The request to review the rule did not come from the teams, said Masi. “It was actually the FIA proactively suggesting that it’s something that we collectively reviewed and understanding the background to it was the original part and how it came about.

In response to a question from RaceFans, FIA race director Michael Masi confirmed this regulation is to be reviewed.

“We will discuss, as we do with all parts of the regulations, anything that needs to be updated, revised or renewed from time to time,” he said. “The technical directive which that relates to is not different to any other regulation that may need to be considered, reviewed – or reviewed and the status quo stays. So that process is already underway and working with all of the teams, not just individuals.”

The request to review the rule did not come from the teams, said Masi. “It was actually the FIA proactively suggesting that it’s something that we collectively reviewed and understanding the background to it was the original part and how it came about.

[Just_a_fan]

Drivers don't need modes to protect an engine, they just shouldn't mash the pedal all the time, they need to modulate their pedal inputs with their feet, like microsteering.

I think you lack understanding about what all the engine modes are actually doing. A lot more is being changed that what the driver can do with a pedal!

You should have stopped after the 5th word...

[Just_a_fan]

How can I understand comments like this from Leclerc?
"But for us I can say that we don’t have anything different from quali to the race so for us I don’t think it will change anything.”
They are thinking not so much about trivial stuff like depleting the whole ES over one lap but more about much more agressive (ICE) engine maps? Like boost, ignition timing, fuel mix etc.
Hard to explain.

Unless one comes to the conclusion that this new rule might well just be to greatly benefit a particular team who at the moment seems to specifically have a woefully underpowered engine compared to the other three manufacturers?....

That would mean a certain team is protected by the FIA in the same way that they are protected by a certain mod hereabouts. That can't be right, surely? There must be something more to it than that.

[Just_a_fan]

Of course, the phrase 'the same engine map' can, if you have a foil hat, be interpreted as the same engine map -for all.

Standardised engine maps?

That would only work with a standard engine. If the FIA want to slow down F1, they could impose a single engine supplier. Might I suggest Ferrari for that role?

[Just_a_fan]

Biggest cry baby of the F1 already replied : https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... XfDlH.html

He wanted closer battles, what he said after first Silverstone win, he is a hypocrite. Time to give his seat to Russel en let the youngsters race.

Hmmm, hardly crying.

“As I told you, it’s obviously to slow us down, but I don’t think it’s going to get the result that they want. So, it’s totally fine if they do it,” he said.

[Just_a_fan]

How can they make a rule change in season? wont that require unanimous support from every team?
Or are the rules changed?

I think they will claim it’s a clarification of two existing rules. Entirely in their, the FIA, Control.

They have to be careful though, this isn't purely a sporting issue. This has hardware ramifications that could require the small poor teams to have to dish out extra money for reliability reasons. That's the kind of thing that leads to lawsuits.

Not lawsuits. Empty grids. Small teams faced with increased costs will simply fold.The TV companies will be happy - fewer teams means shorter qualifying sessions means more advertising breaks. $$$$

[bucker]

I don't think it will make any difference. Mercedes is in their own league anyway, and also others will have less power available in quali, since they will Use race modes.

[henry]

These appear to be a couple of drivers for this change

1.‘’The multitude and complexity of PU modes being used makes-it extremely difficult for the FIA to monitor compliance with all PU-related regulations’’.

I wonder which regulations they have difficulty monitoring? SOC and ES<>K energy flows seem straightforward using the two sensors which were upgraded for the leading teams, though maybe there are issues with sampling frequency. Fuel flow has two sensors one with concealed encryption. Things like pedal maps and ignition maps are orthogonal and relatively static.

Maybe it’s just an attempt at obfuscation, multitude and complexity seems like it might be an issue but the things they measure aren’t varying other than in their magnitudes.

2. ‘’The multitude and complexity of PU modes being used makes it necessary that the driver is instructed (in some cases) what mode he should use by his pit-wall, such instruction to driver are contrary to ‘’The driver should drive the car alone and unaided’’.

The could simply say that PU modes may not be communicated. If they did this pit wall advice would be substituted by software advice on the steering wheel display, substituting a contest between UI and software engineers. Sometimes this advice is safety related so it’s hard to gain say it.

This looks like an attempt to find a justification that the generality of fans will find acceptable. Multitude and complexity sounds like it must be difficult and therefore something they have to control.

[dans79]

This looks like an attempt to find a justification that the generality of fans will find acceptable. Multitude and complexity sounds like it must be difficult and therefore something they have to control.

As someone else suggested in another thread, it might also be an attempt at a strong arm tactic to get teams to sign the Concorde Agreement, and to make the RP issue quietly go away!

[saviour stivala]

''FIA wants teams to run the same ICE modes in both qualifying and the race''.

That's still incredibly vague though. What if they run it for a lap does that count? what if they use it at the end of the strait to pull off an overtake? how many modes are they allowed to actually have?

The entire thing is a muddy unclear mess, but I expect nothing more from the FIA.

''Teams must run the same ICE modes in both qualifying and the race''. That is just one selective line of what I posted. I don't see it as 'muddy, unclear and a mess at all. That is besides the rule makers enforcing the ''driver must drive the car alone and unaided rule'' and eliminate the contradiction of the driver being told by his pit-wall what mode to use.

[nzjrs]

These appear to be a couple of drivers for this change

1.‘’The multitude and complexity of PU modes being used makes-it extremely difficult for the FIA to monitor compliance with all PU-related regulations’’.

Tbh I find this a reasonable reason.

[WaikeCU]

I hope this doesn't lead to Mercedes just pulling the plug of their F1 program. We already are in times of crisis globally, but also economically. Don't think FIA could just force a manufacturer to sign the Concorde Agreement and because they refuse to sign, they face consequences by pulling performance off their cars and getting calls against them.

Merc leaving could mean that we potentially only have 1 former champion on the grid for next season. Mercedes were rumoured leaving F1 in the near future, but this could just put things into a high gear.